POST STUFF
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 by Slapnuts, Level 70
Last updated at April 7, 2009, 12:19 am
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It has been obvious for years that this day would come and while I didn't expect another Jordan comeback I have to say this is slightly bitter sweet. The realization that this officially the end of an era and the book is pretty much fully closed is a bit saddening. If you don't want to read continued reminiscing on the man, the myth, the legend, feel free to head on out. This is all Jordan from here on out.
I can remember the first Bulls game I ever watched back in '88 against the Cavs. Not the famous "shot" game but a solid Jordan effort regardless. I was at my grandparents house, only 9 at the time and lacking much NBA exposure. I sat watching Jordan's silky smooth jumper and his attacks on the lane like he owned it and I was an nstant a fan. That day was probably the key moment that led to basketball becoming my favorite sport to play and me playing in high school and beyond. I may have never met the guy in person, only seen him play in person once, but I still feel this odd fan connection as were it not for him I may have never found an interest in basketball.
During the Bulls championship years I never missed a playoff game, not a single one. I can remember watching the "a spectacular move" called by Marv Albert live, alone in the house when the family was out for dinner and being in complete awe of that layup vs. the Lakers.
His first retirement was crushing. While it may not have moved me to tears I had a profound reaction to something that really had no direct connection to my life. The SI cover at right summed it up perfectly, "Why?". I was pretty bummed out for a few weeks and some of my friends found it within themselves to actually give me **** about it; damn Pistons fans.I will never forget "the shot" and that moment will forever be etched in my head. The Jazz game in 1998, game six. You just had that feeling that maybe it was the end at that point. The story book return, the re-three-peat and the game winner. While he did make a return via the Wizards, that was still a pretty amazing shot to wrap up his career in the red and black.
Say what you want but the league has not been the same since he left the Bulls and certainly not since he returned from the Wizards. The "Air apparent" has been called out many times, from Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Vince Carter, Kobe, Lebron, but no one has come close. Even with years of Kobe and Lebron to come ratings are still down, the league's image has changed for the worse and much of that magic from the Jordan/Bird/Magic era has dissipated.
I have the Ultimate Jordan dvd collection and it is a must own for any fan of his airness. I like to pop it in from time to time to reminisce, admire and just be in awe of his level of play and dedication. Few players have had the competitive edge and drive that he did to always be the best.
I just wanted to share some Jordan memories and thoughts and if anyone wants to contribute, fans or not, feel free. There have only been a few athletes ever at this level, Ali, Pele, Gretzky, Tiger, but Jordan will always be number one in this guy's book.
Thanks for all the memories MJ, it was an amazing run.
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27 comments
El Conando Apr 7, 2009 at 12:27 am
+2 votes
Ah, watching the Bulls-Jazz in the seventh grade. NBA hasn't been quite the same since.
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Slapnuts Apr 7, 2009 at 12:43 am
+1 votes
No doubt about it. That series (9
, started the night of my senior all night party, I spent most of the game in the lobby watching it and missing out on some of the festivities. Very little ever pulled me away from the bulls and nothing from a playoff game. =p
, started the night of my senior all night party, I spent most of the game in the lobby watching it and missing out on some of the festivities. Very little ever pulled me away from the bulls and nothing from a playoff game. =p
r0kzilla Apr 7, 2009 at 1:18 am
+0 votes
Likewhoa said
the guy from space jam played basketball?
uhhohh Apr 7, 2009 at 1:06 am
+1 votes
Yep, I remember watching Jordan in the 90s and trying to replicate his moves on my Fisher Price hoop during the games in my basement. I'd then go outside and lower the real hoop to 6', put on the Space Jam soundtrack, invite some friends over, and pretend I was an all-star. **** that sounds so gay.
Gunnolf- Apr 7, 2009 at 1:55 am
+1 votes
I'll never ever forget seeing the pregame show at the United Center when the announcer would say:
6'6 from North Carolina...............
MICHAELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
JOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNN
crowd went absolutely nuts
6'6 from North Carolina...............
MICHAELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
JOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNN
crowd went absolutely nuts
Bowownerlol Apr 7, 2009 at 2:54 am
+1 votes
http://digg.com/d1o4TS
I jizzed my pants after watching this, found on digg today.
No one will ever be as good as MJ, ever.
I jizzed my pants after watching this, found on digg today.
No one will ever be as good as MJ, ever.
Salman Apr 7, 2009 at 4:46 am
+1 votes
I love MJ. Just a shame I was too young to watch most of his games and really be into it. Following your team/player through the playoffs during big matches is purely awesome when its happening live. Good thing for archive footage
Kobe, LeBron and I'm saying it, Wade are close to MJ.
They may not be as revered as MJ but goddamn they still pull off some amazing plays. Kobe's talent, LeBron's sheer power and dominance and Wade's awesomeness all make for entertaining ball games. Yeah I like Dwade, just coz he's carrying like a mofo.
In fact, I think LeBron and Wade still have a way to go in terms of reaching their potential.
Also, Dwight Howard may just be playing his position as intended (taking a dump on everybody else through sheer strength) but he's doing good things for raising the league's entertainment value. He's got the monster jam down.
Anyway, the league is always going to have a solid audience base as long as Yao plays. KEK ^_^
Kobe, LeBron and I'm saying it, Wade are close to MJ.
They may not be as revered as MJ but goddamn they still pull off some amazing plays. Kobe's talent, LeBron's sheer power and dominance and Wade's awesomeness all make for entertaining ball games. Yeah I like Dwade, just coz he's carrying like a mofo.
In fact, I think LeBron and Wade still have a way to go in terms of reaching their potential.
Also, Dwight Howard may just be playing his position as intended (taking a dump on everybody else through sheer strength) but he's doing good things for raising the league's entertainment value. He's got the monster jam down.
Anyway, the league is always going to have a solid audience base as long as Yao plays. KEK ^_^
Slapnuts Apr 7, 2009 at 12:24 pm
+1 votes
kobe and lebron are the closest anyone has come, but Kobe has peaked already imho and I don't see him being referred to as the GOAT.
Lebron, who I absolutely love to watch, just doesn't have it yet. Simply skill set wise he is amazing but there are a few things he lacks. One, the rings. Two, that charisma. There, I don't know that he quite has that killer instinct yet. Often he defers to his teammates too much and while that is the "good" thing to do, it times isn't the smartest thing to do.
Lebron, who I absolutely love to watch, just doesn't have it yet. Simply skill set wise he is amazing but there are a few things he lacks. One, the rings. Two, that charisma. There, I don't know that he quite has that killer instinct yet. Often he defers to his teammates too much and while that is the "good" thing to do, it times isn't the smartest thing to do.
Likewhoa Apr 7, 2009 at 1:42 pm
+1 votes
I think it would take an act of God for someone to be considered on the same level as MJ, but NOT because of skill. Kobe has reached the skill level Michael was at, the difference being the level of skill throughout the NBA. The average player now is better than they were last year, and the year before that.
The league, like most other sports, has progressed skill-wise indefinitely, so it's increasingly harder to really 'shine' like MJ did. Not to say MJ wasn't the best, but I think he just looks 'untouchable' because he was soo much better than all the players in his time. I think it's entirely possible to someone like Kobe or Dwayne to shine like that if they played in the same time period. Kobe and Dwayne are obviously better than everyone else out there, can pull off some crazy ****, and step it up when needed, but I just don't think they had the same opportunity to do the things like MJ.
Just because you're capable of handling the pressure of taking a buzzer beater in the situation like a final, doesn't mean the opportunity to actually take it will occur. We'd be talking higher about other individuals if they actually had the same opportunities to take the same 'no-luck, all skill' buzzer beaters as MJ so notoriously did.
It's like the same arguement as whenever Skip Bayless downranks Tiger Woods as being the best golfer ever, because Tiger's had weaker competition than his predecessors, but in reverse in this case obviously.
The league, like most other sports, has progressed skill-wise indefinitely, so it's increasingly harder to really 'shine' like MJ did. Not to say MJ wasn't the best, but I think he just looks 'untouchable' because he was soo much better than all the players in his time. I think it's entirely possible to someone like Kobe or Dwayne to shine like that if they played in the same time period. Kobe and Dwayne are obviously better than everyone else out there, can pull off some crazy ****, and step it up when needed, but I just don't think they had the same opportunity to do the things like MJ.
Just because you're capable of handling the pressure of taking a buzzer beater in the situation like a final, doesn't mean the opportunity to actually take it will occur. We'd be talking higher about other individuals if they actually had the same opportunities to take the same 'no-luck, all skill' buzzer beaters as MJ so notoriously did.
It's like the same arguement as whenever Skip Bayless downranks Tiger Woods as being the best golfer ever, because Tiger's had weaker competition than his predecessors, but in reverse in this case obviously.
Smokeee Apr 7, 2009 at 3:03 pm
+2 votes
Kobe has not reached MJ's skill level. You should go back and watch MJ clips and he did that every game. He didn't have nearly the wishy washy games Kobe has when his shot isn't falling. MJ was a way better distributor as well with the jumper pass down to the post all of the time finding the open man. MJ was a show to see every game whereas Kobe is a show every once in a while. I think he is on the decline now while MJ was dominant for much longer. Kobe's style is closer to MJ than any other star but i'd go as far to say Lebron will end up being better than Kobe, but not as good as MJ. MJ was a once in a lifetime athlete.
Afgar Jul 24, 2009 at 12:27 am
+1 votes
That's a big debatable topic. If you consider basketball "skill" in a pure sense, I'd say Kobe has surpassed MJ. He's a much, much better shooter than MJ ever was and has equal skills in other areas such as footwork, finishing at the rim, passing, and defense.
MJ is the GOAT because of how accomplished he was. 2 mvps, 6 championships, 6 finals mvps...the list goes on. Kobe probably won't top that list, but it's still technically possible. If he wins 4 more championships and 4 more finals mvps, I think you can easily make the case he's the best ever. It's possbile. Michael won 3 when he was 32+, and Kobe hasn't even hit that age yet.
Right now though I'd say the greatest of all time list goes something like this:
1) Michael
2) Magic Johnson
3) Kareem Abdul
4) Bill Russel
5) Kobe Bryant
MJ is the GOAT because of how accomplished he was. 2 mvps, 6 championships, 6 finals mvps...the list goes on. Kobe probably won't top that list, but it's still technically possible. If he wins 4 more championships and 4 more finals mvps, I think you can easily make the case he's the best ever. It's possbile. Michael won 3 when he was 32+, and Kobe hasn't even hit that age yet.
Right now though I'd say the greatest of all time list goes something like this:
1) Michael
2) Magic Johnson
3) Kareem Abdul
4) Bill Russel
5) Kobe Bryant
Smokeee Jul 24, 2009 at 11:17 am
+1 votes
I think Kobe is on the downswing of his career, and i don't think his legs are what they were. He can do it in spurts but he can't regularly carry a team now like MJ did, or Lebron does. Kobe couldn't just turn it on this past season, and more than a few times when his shot wasn't falling he was ineffective, and hurt the team more than he helped when he would be takiing all of the shots. I'm not saying Kobe isn't a great player but he's not even the best in the NBA right now, that would HAVE to go to Lebron/Wade. Kobe has dropped off, but he is getting more credit now for winning a championship and playing more a team role in doing it. He has a lot of mileage on those legs even if he's still young. Kobe joined the NBA straight out of high school, and he had knee surgery thats affected his athleticism and imo its obvious. He has games where he looks like the old Kobe but he can't do it as consistently anymore.
MJ is on another level of any basketball player i've watched play. I'll never agree Kobe is even close to MJ. And when MJ got older i'd argue his shot was very close to Kobe's, just not from 3pt range, but MJ became one of the top shooters when his athleticism/age declined a bit. I think Lebron is closer to MJ in being able to score at will than Kobe, however Kobe mimics MJ more in their builds and style of player.
MJ is on another level of any basketball player i've watched play. I'll never agree Kobe is even close to MJ. And when MJ got older i'd argue his shot was very close to Kobe's, just not from 3pt range, but MJ became one of the top shooters when his athleticism/age declined a bit. I think Lebron is closer to MJ in being able to score at will than Kobe, however Kobe mimics MJ more in their builds and style of player.
Afgar Jul 24, 2009 at 7:24 pm
+1 votes
Fair enough. But what happens if Kobe proves that his legs aren't fading, wins another mvp, wins more championships and more finals mvps?
Also, how exactly did MJ carry teams? MJ NEVER had to carry a team like Kobe did through 2005-2007. He carried teams that started players who are now almost all a) in the D league or Europe b) not playing professional bball at all or c) rookies who were but a mere shadow of what they are now (Bynum, Farmar). He carried these teams into the playoffs and he did it mostly by scoring because no one else on the team could. This included sights such as the 81-point game vs. the Raptors. A game in which Kobe shot BEYOND efficiently and led his team to a come from behind blowout win. MJ had Scottie Pippen throughout his ENTIRE career and also enjoyed stars like Ron Harper and Dennis Rodman. MJ was never asked to carry a team anywhere near the way Kobe was.
As an illustration, when Michael retired for a year, his Bulls team reached the conference finals without him. I doubt the championship Lakers of this past year, or even Shaq's Lakers ever could have done that without Kobe. I know you love Michael, but lets think these things through.
Also, how exactly did MJ carry teams? MJ NEVER had to carry a team like Kobe did through 2005-2007. He carried teams that started players who are now almost all a) in the D league or Europe b) not playing professional bball at all or c) rookies who were but a mere shadow of what they are now (Bynum, Farmar). He carried these teams into the playoffs and he did it mostly by scoring because no one else on the team could. This included sights such as the 81-point game vs. the Raptors. A game in which Kobe shot BEYOND efficiently and led his team to a come from behind blowout win. MJ had Scottie Pippen throughout his ENTIRE career and also enjoyed stars like Ron Harper and Dennis Rodman. MJ was never asked to carry a team anywhere near the way Kobe was.
As an illustration, when Michael retired for a year, his Bulls team reached the conference finals without him. I doubt the championship Lakers of this past year, or even Shaq's Lakers ever could have done that without Kobe. I know you love Michael, but lets think these things through.
Afgar Jul 24, 2009 at 7:30 pm
+1 votes
Please note I'm not saying Kobe is better than Michael, just that your argument that Kobe can't carry a team like Michael is absurd.
If you don't think Kobe can carry a team, I invite you to look as recently back as Game 1 of the NBA finals where Kobe went off for 40/8/8. 56 PRA is carrying a team in my book. Lebron can enjoy his "check my stats" shirts all he wants, most NBA fans know who the real best player in the league still is.
If you don't think Kobe can carry a team, I invite you to look as recently back as Game 1 of the NBA finals where Kobe went off for 40/8/8. 56 PRA is carrying a team in my book. Lebron can enjoy his "check my stats" shirts all he wants, most NBA fans know who the real best player in the league still is.
Smokeee Jul 24, 2009 at 7:56 pm
+1 votes
Afgar said
Please note I'm not saying Kobe is better than Michael, just that your argument that Kobe can't carry a team like Michael is absurd.
If you don't think Kobe can carry a team, I invite you to look as recently back as Game 1 of the NBA finals where Kobe went off for 40/8/8. 56 PRA is carrying a team in my book. Lebron can enjoy his "check my stats" shirts all he wants, most NBA fans know who the real best player in the league still is.
If you don't think Kobe can carry a team, I invite you to look as recently back as Game 1 of the NBA finals where Kobe went off for 40/8/8. 56 PRA is carrying a team in my book. Lebron can enjoy his "check my stats" shirts all he wants, most NBA fans know who the real best player in the league still is.
I'm emphasizing the Kobe now when i say he isn't capable of carrying the team on a nightlly basis.
Smokeee Jul 24, 2009 at 7:50 pm
+1 votes
Kobe had Shaq, the most dominating player in NBA history arguably, and then Gasol, probably one of the best Centers in the game today. Bynum had a great rookie year, Phil just wouldn't play him unless Mihms was hurt if i remember right. And there are so many other factors that determine how great one player is other than pointing to one other player star, that is obvious from just watching them both. I mean we can get into every player in the lineup, reserves, and every single possible factor but you just know if you've watched them both, how important they were for their championships, and how great they were from game to game, and in the clutch. I'm not saying Kobe isn't up there and he did have a phenomenal year when he was taking every shot, but he's peaked already, and thats not enough to reach MJ status.
Pippen was solid but he gets overrated for being on the top 50 alltime list. Kukoc was a star also so.... They just played well as a team running the triangle like a clinic, with great defense which i'll give Pippen a lot more credit for, and thats how they could always win. But there is no way you could take away from what MJ did against 1, 2, 3, 4 people. Consistently. You don't get that status from a whole generation easily, and i'm pretty sure Kobe and Lebron wouldn't put themself there either.
Pippen was solid but he gets overrated for being on the top 50 alltime list. Kukoc was a star also so.... They just played well as a team running the triangle like a clinic, with great defense which i'll give Pippen a lot more credit for, and thats how they could always win. But there is no way you could take away from what MJ did against 1, 2, 3, 4 people. Consistently. You don't get that status from a whole generation easily, and i'm pretty sure Kobe and Lebron wouldn't put themself there either.
Afgar Jul 24, 2009 at 7:54 pm
+1 votes
I know Kobe had Shaq and Gasol, but my example consisted of teams that DIDN'T have these great players, hence why he carried these teams.
Pippen overrated? How about this: Michael without Scottie Pippen : never out of the first round of the playoffs. Scottie Pippen without Michael : conference finals.
Kobe's athleticism is declining, but his career is not. Much like how Michael's athleticism declined in his 30s, yet he still won 4 championships. Just look at almost any of the playoff games Kobe played in this year and you can see he still plays at a level higher than pretty much anyone in the NBA. He's got more coming to and there's absolutely ZERO reason to think otherwise.
Pippen overrated? How about this: Michael without Scottie Pippen : never out of the first round of the playoffs. Scottie Pippen without Michael : conference finals.
Kobe's athleticism is declining, but his career is not. Much like how Michael's athleticism declined in his 30s, yet he still won 4 championships. Just look at almost any of the playoff games Kobe played in this year and you can see he still plays at a level higher than pretty much anyone in the NBA. He's got more coming to and there's absolutely ZERO reason to think otherwise.
Smokeee Jul 24, 2009 at 8:00 pm
+1 votes
Like i said before, you can't look at it with just 2 star players. The supporting casts ALWAYS make huge differences, and how much their teamwork has evolved. The Bulls were terrible during MJ's early days, and MJ was the whole show. Sorry i watched like every game of the Bulls back then, and the way people hype Pippen now IS overrated. Top 50 all time? Yeah he carried them when MJ was out but he just wasn't as consistently dominating to me to deserve it. He pussed out so bad when he refused to go back into the game because Phil gameplanned for Kukoc to take the last shot. Pippen is like 2Pac, remembered greater in hindsight than he was during his time.
Afgar Jul 24, 2009 at 8:29 pm
+1 votes
Of course supporting casts make huge differences. I was just making an argument. You said Kobe can't carry a team like MJ did, and that's wrong. He carried the Bulls in his early years...but not very far. Certainly no farther than Kobe ever carried a team.
Pippen is like 2pac...that's a bad comparison seeing as how you're trying to prove Pippen was NOT one of the greatest 50 bball players of all time. I think he was and I think he deserves to be a hall of famer. I guess this is just a difference of opinion though and it's not a point I want to argue.
Pippen is like 2pac...that's a bad comparison seeing as how you're trying to prove Pippen was NOT one of the greatest 50 bball players of all time. I think he was and I think he deserves to be a hall of famer. I guess this is just a difference of opinion though and it's not a point I want to argue.
Qlimax Apr 7, 2009 at 7:03 am
+1 votes
Absolute legend of sport in general. He's up there with the top 5 sportsman world wide.
My brother was a devoted fan, collected a **** load of his cards and loved watching the NBA run downs on television over here.
My brother was a devoted fan, collected a **** load of his cards and loved watching the NBA run downs on television over here.
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