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by CrispyDeath, Level 41
Last updated at September 1, 2008, 10:38 am


Last post I gave the idea that god is possibly timeless, in that he existed before time began and will exist if time ever ended.  But what if time itself has no beginning nor end.  What if over the course of 10x100^99999 years all things repeat exactly the way they did the cycle before.

Well, its possible.  Renowned physicists like Steven Hawking believe its possible.  Go on the premise that matter is finite and time is infinite.  Lets assume that motion, not a hard assumption, governs all aspects of the universe.  And that all of the universe is always in motion.  If you take all these premises to be true, you find that the theory of ETERNAL RETURN is possible, maybe even very possible.

Continuing on those premises, here is the rationale.  Pretend the universe is a balloon - a vacuum with the exception - of 1 billion free floating atoms (like a gas).  Those atoms bounce around and reconfigure constantly.  Because of the number of atoms, the fashion they are moving, and the large amount of space in which these atoms have to bounce about you could imagine that 1 billion atoms will never be in the same exact configuration they were at any other instance of time.  But in this universe, as in the premise, time is endless.  With a set amount of atoms and an unlimited amount of time, even if it took eons upon eons upon eons of time, there will be a moment where the atoms are in the exact same spot, with the exact same velocity (remember velocity includes direction) and the universe effectively restarts.  Every cycle from then on, would be a replay of everything that happened the cycle before.

I am not going to ask any cheesy questions like... if its true, how will you lead your life?  Because the answer is obvious... it would have to be 'no different'.

Nietzsche is not the father of cyclical time.  The Mayan's believed the world worked in repetitive cycles as well.  They also said that there were four stages including growth and pain/destruction.

"What if some demon were to say to you that this life as you know as you have lived it in the past, you would have to live it once more, enumerable times, there would be nothing new, every pain and every join you would live over and over... for infinity... consider the possibility that every action you choose... you choose for all time." - Frederich Nietzsche (The Gay Science)



Next time: We'll discover if I wrote about objective/subjective morality or maybe I wrote about the absurdities found in Intellectual Property.
     
108 comments
FWind
FWind Sep 1, 2008 at 11:46 am
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Gustavolol
Gustavolol Sep 1, 2008 at 11:50 am
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the 10x100 part of your big number was really funny.

just had to say it ;p.
Victi
Victi Sep 1, 2008 at 12:06 pm
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Kraderif
Kraderif Sep 1, 2008 at 12:10 pm
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CrispyDeath
CrispyDeath Sep 1, 2008 at 12:23 pm
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Jaedenn
Jaedenn Sep 2, 2008 at 2:16 am
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the point is people like u that never saw a book in theyre life can't understand this blog
Kraderif
Kraderif Sep 2, 2008 at 11:09 am
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Sorry, I couldn't watch the clips until I got to my home, (resctrictions at my job).

The question wasn't to attack, nor to mean or imply that Crispy's blog post was pointless or stupid or anything like that. It's just that I didn't see if he wanted to start a debate or controversy about anything.

After I could watch the clips, I understood. I've already watched the movie, and yes, I admit it is a very interesting question. Although I ignore if Nietzsche rally said it, it makes you think about valuing more your time and your life. Unless you are a complete insensitive, retarded, hopeless idiot.


By the way, if you are going to try to "insult" or "troll" (or whatever you want to call it) someone about his "familiarity" to books. At least try to show that you can write properly and you are not are not mentally 8 year-old.
CrispyDeath
CrispyDeath Sep 2, 2008 at 12:45 pm
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Yeah the blog was to promote debate, not really to assert the philosophy as a truth.  As the insinuator I assume responsibility as the advocate for the idea unless someone else wants to argue in my place.
elusive
elusive Sep 1, 2008 at 12:33 pm
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Thought about giving this some though. But no.
Marsh
Marsh Sep 1, 2008 at 1:01 pm unhide comment
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NoblemanPyrrho
NoblemanPyrrho Sep 1, 2008 at 1:08 pm
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God not existing is impossible. The building blocks of our universe
coming out of nowhere is impossible. That doesn't mean any organized
religion is valid however.

wouldn't god coming out of nowhere be equally impossible?

though i'll have to agree with you (or your troll persona, whichever) when you say militant atheists are stupid
CrispyDeath
CrispyDeath Sep 1, 2008 at 1:17 pm
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Haha, I love your attacks Marsh.  Because they're aimed at me but are 100% off the marks.  If you read my last blog you'd know instantly that I am not atheist.  That I am agnostic.  Nor did I even touch on the presence of god in this idea.  Nor did I even say I believed the idea was true but explicitly mentioned that it was possible and even concede that it was very possible.  Shows your troll skillz.
Marsh
Marsh Sep 1, 2008 at 2:48 pm
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I'm not attacking you dumbass. I was commenting on your last blog.
CrispyDeath
CrispyDeath Sep 1, 2008 at 3:00 pm
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Sorry but atheism is as retarded as being an obnoxious teen that
doesn't listen to his parents. You aren't edgy or cool. And you sure as
hell aren't more enlightened or logical than the rest of us. You're
just dumb.

Seemed to me you were.  If you weren't, it doesn't seem its directed any anyone.  But at the same time it seems its directed at someone.  Which lead me to believe that since your comment is in response to my blog, you were talking to me, calling me an atheist, and the rest that follows.  Or I guess you could have been doing something else.
Gustavolol
Gustavolol Sep 1, 2008 at 1:21 pm
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"Bell concluded of 43 studies carried out since 1927 on the relationship between religious belief and ones intelligence and or educational level all but 4 found an inverse connection." -- The god delusion

Also interesting to see the amount of noble prize winners that are atheists.
Chicane
Chicane Sep 1, 2008 at 5:03 pm
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Gustav, while there can be some validity to what you say, there can be other circumstances.  Typically, one who believes in God is humbling themself.  They are admitting that they are but nothing compared to something so much larger.  The more intelligent/educated one is, the more likely they have more faith and trust in themselves over some "all knowing being."  Therefore, belief or disbelief in God might hinge on intelligence because of self-confidence and self-trust that come as a result, rather than the concept that believing in God is an overall stupid idea.
Grup
Grup Sep 1, 2008 at 1:23 pm
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How is it impossible?  Horrible logic.
Marsh
Marsh Sep 1, 2008 at 2:52 pm
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Because it is. How else can you explain the creation of the universe without God? It just poofed into existence from complete nothingness? Give me a break.
Grup
Grup Sep 1, 2008 at 3:55 pm
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And God poofed into existence from nothing?  How?  If God has existed for all time, how did time ever reach this point? Hint: it couldn't have.  There had to be a beginning of our universe's timeline.  God being here forever or having a beginning makes as much sense as the universe being the same way.  No one has said the universe's physical laws have always been the same as they are now.
Marsh
Marsh Sep 1, 2008 at 4:03 pm
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That's the whole point. Neither God existing or the universe always existing or creating itself makes any sense at all. Therefore I think when dealing with the impossible then the most logical explanation is God.
Grup
Grup Sep 1, 2008 at 5:32 pm
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Why is it impossible?

You're saying you understand the physical laws of our universe (or others) when no one does.  That's pretty dishonest thinking.  If the universe makes no sense, God makes no sense.  So why believe in him?  Why would he even be conscious or creative?  If by God you mean "different physical laws of the universe with no sentience" then I'd agree.

Some people have said that the universe has always existed but two mirror universes exist from one point in time, time flowing in one direction, time flowing in the other, that gets rid of the "always existing" conundrum.
Shadowlol
Shadowlol Sep 1, 2008 at 7:47 pm
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"That's the whole point. Neither God existing or the universe always existing or creating itself makes any sense at all. Therefore I think when dealing with the impossible then the most logical explanation is God."

I read this as:

"How did it all begin? It makes no sense!! There is no answer! I R CONFUSSLED... therefore god exists"

you're basically saying gods existance is a result of some technicality. At this point i would seriously question your religious beliefs because, if there is a God, i doubt he/she would want to be used as some get-out-of-confusion-free card.
Nabukun
Nabukun Sep 1, 2008 at 10:37 pm
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God didn't poof into existence. He is eternal and exists outside of creation, i.e. not bound by space or time. The very definition of God is that He is the Uncreated Creator of all. He is the original Cause. Asking the question, 'who created God?' is like asking 'what is the color of music?'
Grup
Grup Sep 1, 2008 at 10:55 pm
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How is he not bound by time?  How can he interact with the physical world if he himself has no physical existence?  He created our universe out of what exactly?  Thin air?  Who says the previous universe was bound by time in physical laws?

I like how God can be outside of the physical laws, but a previous universe with different laws can't.  What kind of nonsense is that?
Nabukun
Nabukun Sep 1, 2008 at 11:12 pm
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As-salaamu alaikum (peace be upon you). Thank you for asking this question. The simple answer is- yes, He can Create out of nothing.

It befitteth not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.' (Al Qur'an - Chapter 19, Verse 35)

This verse does two things. It debunks the Christian notion that Jesus was the literal son of God and therefore was God incarnate. It also explains the Immaculate Conception and the nature of God's Omnipotent Powers. If He wants something to happen, it happens. Just like that.

There was no previous universe. There are several universes now, but nothing existed before the big bang, except for Allah (the Sacred and the Mighty).

Any Truth in this comment is from Allah (swt) and any mistakes are my own.

I hope this answer was satisfactory for you and if not, I apologize :)
Shinkajo
Shinkajo Sep 2, 2008 at 12:21 pm
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Your reasoning is so retarder you stupid yankie bastard. Just because YOUR puny little blob you call a brain can't explain it or come up whit a explanation doesn't automatically mean its impossible. Where the fak did your god come from then huh? Have you considered that time may be infinite, whitout a beginning or a end, and that the universe was never created but has existed constantly.

Have all laws of the universe been discovered? Do we know EVERYTHING about the universe. NO. That's why you can't assume god made it. Have you thought that maybe the answer to that question is beyond our understanding? God is a fiction of human imagination. We created god, not the other way around.  That's the problem whit yanks(and whit other primitive civilizations), as soon as they can't explain something themselves they automatically turn to god. Is god logical? Fak no, its the most illogical thing you can think of.

Lets assume that the universe has a beginning, that everything comes from something. Why then does it have to be god? You can not know that, it can be ANYTHING. Your reasoning is so blind and so flawed that i wonder how do you survive on the world on a daily basis. There is nothing supernatural in the world, no retarded mysteries to make your life more meaningful. We can be an accident. Everything that exists mite as well be an accident. Humans have only lived a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a moment. Do you really consider yourself qualified to answer that question whit that ridiculous answer?
Sancin
Sancin Sep 1, 2008 at 1:43 pm
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You're retarded. Please go play in traffic Brah.
NyeT
NyeT Sep 1, 2008 at 1:48 pm
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So where did God come from? You're right, no religion is valid.
Marsh
Marsh Sep 1, 2008 at 3:07 pm
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Ultimately something had to come first. Natural matter or God. Matter can't just spontaneously create itself when absolutely nothing before it ever existed.

It was God.
Serratus
Serratus Sep 1, 2008 at 3:19 pm
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You take the multi-verse theory into account, and well... yes it can.

Though technically it's much more complex than that as it states that our universe just budded off of another universe in an infinite series of universes, all sort of laid across from each other like a cosmic loaf of bread; though that's really just a metaphor for its appearance.  
Marsh
Marsh Sep 1, 2008 at 3:46 pm
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No it can't. By universe I mean everything. Not just our bubble or whatever you want to call it.
Serratus
Serratus Sep 1, 2008 at 3:53 pm
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I think if you take into account the possibility of the multi-verse with an infinite number of universes all of which can very likely operate under unique sets of laws, and hold unique sets of life...

That the thought of it just appearing isn't too weird after all. ;-\ 
Marsh
Marsh Sep 1, 2008 at 3:59 pm
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I'm not making the old argument " that since the conditions in our universe and our planet are right for life, therefore God obviously exists". I understand the logical failings of that argument. And it's why I beleive life exists on lots of other planets.

What I'm saying is the original creation of all the universe(s) can't just appear from nothing, Something had to get the ball rolling when you're dealing with the natural world. The only way for something to always exist is when you're dealing with the supernatural aka God.
FWind
FWind Sep 1, 2008 at 4:09 pm
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Matter can and do spontaneously create itself in vacuum. Not for very long, though, but still.
CrispyDeath
CrispyDeath Sep 1, 2008 at 5:07 pm
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Vacuum's exist everywhere.  The space between sub-atomic particles or their possibly near infinite amount of sub-particles exists a vacuum.
CrispyDeath
CrispyDeath Sep 1, 2008 at 7:38 pm
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*correction* Where are you getting that matter creates itself in a vacuum?
FWind
FWind Sep 2, 2008 at 2:02 am
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Uncertainty principle, the state of vacuum would be too well known if it was truly empty. What happens is that a particle and its anti particle are created. and then take each other out. This is called Vacuum fluctiation. I bet you can read about it on wiki, but im too lazy to check.
dub
dub Sep 1, 2008 at 7:32 pm
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"Matter can't just spontaneously create itself when absolutely nothing before it ever existed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider
NyeT
NyeT Sep 1, 2008 at 11:13 pm
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Oh, ok if you and your wisdom and logic says that God came first I'll believe that. You're too much of a hick not to be a troll.
Serratus
Serratus Sep 1, 2008 at 2:22 pm
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Just want to let you know Marsh, this's the first comment of yours I've downvoted.

I disagree with pretty much every comment and blog you write, but I haven't been bothered to downvote it. 

This comment was that bad. 
NyeT
NyeT Sep 1, 2008 at 11:16 pm
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Haha, I didn't even know people actually used the down voting function. But honestly, like I said he's wayyy too pro-American/Hick/Christian to not be a troll.
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