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by trancez, Level 33
Last updated at February 27, 2008, 9:43 pm
Here's what happend from my perspective

I'm not here to defend SK-Gaming's Arena Team, but merely state the facts that happend.

During this period of time the lag spike happend, Cox Cable(An internet service in Orange County) had spiked throughout the whole region. I also was in my own arena practicing 5s and azure/agnos were complaining about lag spikes, and coincidentally Azurewrath/Agnos(They're roommates) live in the same arena as Mykke (Orange County, CA). Right after this was said, SK msged me about the lag spike rule. I should have dealt with this in a more timely fashion but I was busy practicing 5s in arena, talking to NWMF to setup the match, explain the WoW registry lag fix to azure/agnos, and talk to SK at the same time. Later on, Affix also confirmed a lag spike and he also uses Cox Cable Internet.

According to the ruleset (http://www.battlegroup9.com/bg9tourneyruleset.doc), #14.

In case of an instance server crash, severe lag conditions,
or game-altering disconnect, teams may replay their match. If conditions are
too severe during the scheduled match time for 1 hour or more, the match maybe
rescheduled for a more suitable time.

 

While my judgement at the time was based off forcing my own team to replay because of a game-altering disconnect, asking them to replay the match shouldn't have been as much of an ordeal as Veex's made it. (I made the rule based off the WSVG rule that any lag spike/disconnect forced an automatic replay regardless, the difference though is there was an admin watching you play the whole time.)


I don't believe it's fair to change the ruleset mid-tournament while another team in previous rounds were effected by it. The difference between this incident and the fnatic/CLC one was that 10 people were listening to CLC play on BG9 vent saying they heard it happen, which isn't also a valid reason but just enough I guess.


The fraps from the match, starting about half-way through, is here from Neilyo's PoV: http://www.battlegroup9.com/skvsTSG.wmv

 

From the fraps about the incident, and here's the facts on it:


- Edit, there's some confusion because Veex's pet and TSG's paladin have the same name in the video.

- 53 seconds into it is when Mykke(SK's Priest) get's spell locked, he still has the pet targetted during this.

- For about 5-6 seconds, he remains with the paladin/warlock pet targetted. At about 22%, he targets himself and trinkets but dies shortly thereafter.

- Pronne(SK's Druid) does not attempt to heal Mykke until he's at about 22% as well, so it seems unlikely he would have lived though it could have been possible if Mykke had given himself a few more seconds to live and give pronne a chance to heal. Also note that Pronne has a full innervate and is the most mana'd at this time as well.

Whether the lagspike effected Mykke's death is still questionable, the arguement is very valid still.

Edit: I don't want to spoil people's amusement since the above content is invalid, the match stands 2-0 and the round won't be replayed.

Though I write for the website, I do this out of volunteer work mainly. The only reason I started writing for SK was to get this tournament sponsored by a high profile sponsor. If there's someone else out there that could run this full-time and help me out, I would gladly accept the help because I really had no one volunteer to help. My team(fnatic) was extremely frustrated that I chose the tournament's issues over the team's, which doesn't make well for good chemistry which is another reason I think we played poorly in the matches vs CLC.

 

If there is a next tournament, of course there will be a ruleset based
off no admin judgement needed at all with maybe small exceptions and an
invite system based off Ladder Ratings similar to what the BG3/Cyclone
admin team uses. I will either play without administrating or only administrate as well, being that it does conflict with opposing team's agendas.

     
61 comments
Dorain
Dorain Feb 27, 2008 at 9:58 pm
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Video link not working?

edit: for

- Veex's claimed Mykke(SK's Priest) was spell-locked while trying
to Smite his fel-hunter pet, this is untrue because in the video he has
TSG's paladin targetted at this time.
- 53 seconds into it is when Mykke(SK's Priest) get's spell locked, he still has the paladin targetted during this.
for this point, does Neilyo have a casting bar on the priest to prove he wasn't smiting something, and was he ever targeting the pet prior to the pally?
Dorain
Dorain Feb 27, 2008 at 10:02 pm
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blah italics, stupid edit timer
Veex
Veex Feb 27, 2008 at 10:01 pm
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Veex's claimed Mykke(SK's Priest) was spell-locked while trying to
Smite his fel-hunter pet, this is untrue because in the video he has
TSG's paladin targetted at this time.


I'd love to be able to watch that video, because I'm not sure what nonsense you're talking.  Also, you do realize people play off focus frames and proximo, right?  Ever see a shaman load up a chain lightning with no target?  Doesn't mean he's about to cast it into empty space, because TOT means little to nothing.  I'll be able to answer more when I can watch the video.
trancez
trancez Feb 27, 2008 at 10:05 pm
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Dorain
Dorain Feb 27, 2008 at 10:05 pm
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You have to admit that it's a little silly to have a pet targeted as a focus.

Maybe the pally having the same name as the pet has something to do with this?

Maybe I'm just sounding stupid.
Oozo
Oozo Feb 27, 2008 at 10:04 pm
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"" Ok, so, pretty much i was on the side of the grave, saw ur pet at like 65ish % i'm at like 60=70% figure i  can drop it a bit with a few smites i spike a bit and come back with my holy locked with 1 second left and at around 2500 life ""
Twizink
Twizink Feb 27, 2008 at 10:04 pm
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I will speak to both teams today after I've consulted with the other admins, their match will be allowed to be played out.


Does that mean replayed or 2-0??
Kyle P.
Kyle P. Feb 27, 2008 at 10:08 pm
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In case of an instance server crash, severe lag conditions,
or game-altering disconnect, teams may replay their match. If conditions are
too severe during the scheduled match time for 1 hour or more, the match maybe
rescheduled for a more suitable time.


Is a four second spike really severe lag conditions? I understand your position Trance but if it had happened at a 'less crucial moment' would the match still be ruled a 'replay'. I helped write the WSVG rules and I can tell you from my limited experience with rule creation that you absolutely cannot apply the same rule differently depending on the situation. Wording like "game-altering" disconnect is also bad because really that is open to all sorts of interpretation and will only cause more drama like what you're seeing from this.

My advice is that you state things clearly and deliberately. For instance: Any player who disconnects prior to the gates opening will result in an immediate 'replay'. If a player disconnects mid-fight they may petition their opponent for a replay but will otherwise have to accept the round's outcome.

Thats just **** I came up with off the top of my head. The biggest reason you have to make somewhat 'bummer' rules like that is because some players are not exactly the best sports and what happens if a competitor is OOM and running around watching his team lose and realizes pulling the plug will give him another shot at winning? I know that sounds really bad but you and I both know that some people will do anything to win.
Ice-Zero
Ice-Zero Feb 27, 2008 at 10:20 pm
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I'm going to have to agree with this, 4 seconds hardly seems like severe lag conditions.
Nighteyes
Nighteyes Feb 28, 2008 at 2:41 am
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Solange
Solange Feb 27, 2008 at 10:10 pm
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dude.
you are amazingly dense if you are letting some other lag reports, sometime the same evening, somewhere in CA, actually influence your thinking about this case. there is no way to connect that to the specific claim of the priest's lag spike.

everyone in that match was playing fine... the priest was casting spells and stuff... then in a 7 sec timeframe he gets spell-locked, focus-fired and executed to death, while receiving zero heals. Turns out that just in those 4 sec he was lagging, not before, not after, not anyone else.


NOW. is that "instance server crash, severe lag conditions,
or game-altering disconnect"... or NOT?

because anyone at any time, 30 min after the match ends, can claim a lag spike during a decisive moment. You claiming that this invisible 4 sec, JUST as he dies, is "severe lag conditions" cause you got whispers about some other lag supposedly someplace else on west coast, is laughable.
Oozo
Oozo Feb 27, 2008 at 10:10 pm
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The TSG paladin and Veex's pet amazingly enough have the same name, BTW.
Dorain
Dorain Feb 27, 2008 at 10:12 pm
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Oozo
Oozo Feb 27, 2008 at 10:17 pm
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Nah, I've known this for weeks. 

But... Trance thinks that the priest has TSG's paladin targetted from the movie, when he actually has the pet targetted.
Edit:  Ah, I see what you mean.. you commented on that above in a reply.  5 minutes late, yup.  :P
Dorain
Dorain Feb 27, 2008 at 10:19 pm
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By late, I mean I posted this like 6 posts up =]
Oozo
Oozo Feb 27, 2008 at 10:28 pm
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Kind of how your post just right now is late, considering that my edit was done 10 minutes ago and your post here was done just 8 minutes ago!

Touche' sucka!
Czaafum
Czaafum Feb 27, 2008 at 10:49 pm
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Dorain
Dorain Feb 27, 2008 at 10:55 pm
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42 minutes ago vs. 47 minutes ago!?
Oozo
Oozo Feb 27, 2008 at 11:04 pm
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No, no, no.. not the original posts.  You got me there fair and square! 

I'm talking about this comment from you:  "By late, I mean I posted this like 6 posts up =]"

But, I had already made this edit 2 minutes earlier:  "Edit:  Ah, I see what you mean.. you commented on that above in a reply.  5 minutes late, yup.  :P"

It's not us, it's this sucky ass psuedo-forum code they use here. :-D
Dorain
Dorain Feb 27, 2008 at 11:14 pm
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Wow, ok. I did not see that. The refresh rate on this forum is poo
Hstar
Hstar Feb 28, 2008 at 12:51 am
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I thought one of you was going to claim lag...
Reason
Reason Feb 28, 2008 at 4:23 pm
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I thought one of you was going to claim lag...


Ok that is just ******* hilarious that right there is.
Oozo
Oozo Feb 27, 2008 at 10:15 pm
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"severe lag conditions"   --  This should only be used when BOTH sides experience lag that BOTH feel influenced the game.

One guy experiencing a 4 second lag spike is not severe.  Can it effect the outcome of the game?  Yeah, but isn't there a reason you do best out of 5 games to begin with?

This is just common sense. 
Solange
Solange Feb 27, 2008 at 10:21 pm
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between the moron at sk gaming "Personally I would like to see the match replayed... I think that the SK players feel that they are the underdog in this matchup (and I agree with them) which in some way could explain what they are doing."

and the guy in charge going on about who was targeting whom like some sherlock holmes (when the priest himself describes in great detail in irc  that he was trying to smite the pet when he got gibbed)...

poor veex and co. are doomed.
Barabara
Barabara Feb 27, 2008 at 10:23 pm
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Trance, I used to have a lot of respect for you and what you've done for the PVP community; however, after viewing this I can say I have lost nearly all that respect.  After watching the vid and comparing the chatlogs Veex provided it is without a doubt a terrible move on your part, and forcing TSG to replay the game is utterly ridiculous (your affiliation with Schroet Kommando aside).  I don't understand how you can continue this position given that your reasons are quickly countered by information provided by the FRAPS and Veex himself.  I seriously hope this isn't the end of credit for this tourney, and future tourneys administered.
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