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by Veex, Level 22
Last updated at February 27, 2008, 6:12 pm

I was going to refrain from posting this, in hopes of working everything out quietly and between only the two parties involved, but after seeing that fail I think I should let everyone know what's going on with the current 5v5 tournament, and why you may see a forfeit by our name for the match result. I am going to copy the email that I sent to SK's managing owners, which should do the bulk of the explaining:


Hello,


My name is Veex, I am the leader of the arena team "teh supeh gosus" (TSG) and one of the players that is a part of your World of Warcraft invitational tournament.


I am writing this letter to express my frustration and disappointment from the outcome of our match versus SK-Gaming tonight. The matches are played as a best of five series. We won the first game with no issues or complaints, and then went on to win the second match, which was when the trouble began...


During game two, SK's priest (player Mykke) started off the game aggressively by attempting to chain mana burn our mage and healers. As a result, he was out of mana after only two minutes and began to play defensively. When our team noticed this we quickly called for a switch onto him, and spell locked his holy spells and then proceeded to kill him with a high amount of burst damage ( http://www.veevsvault.com/combatlog_warrior_pov.jpg ) before his other healer could react.


After the game was over I returned to IRC to schedule the third match. Neilyo mentioned the priest had lagged, but I decided to refrain from saying anything in hopes of preventing the explosive drama that was to follow. We set up the third match and both teams joined, with the exception of SK's priest. After leaving that 4v5 game, Neilyo prepares us to play another game, but our mage disconnects from Ventrilo. After waiting about two minutes for him to return, we ask if they are still ready to play, and it is at this point in time when Neilyo begins claiming the second match needs to be replayed due to the priest's lag.


Before we can even begin to refute it, we are informed that Trance has already decided that the match must be replayed. This decision was made without consulting a single member of TSG first, which I believe shows an extreme amount of bias that a tournament admin simply should not be allowed to have.



We then joined a private IRC channel to discuss what had happened, but it was quickly apparent to me that there would be little to no reasoning. They had already made up their minds and were intent on using their privileges and power as the tournament host to make the final call. Hoping that we would just allow ourselves to be walked over, they proceed to threaten us with disqualification and snide remarks:
http://www.veevsvault.com/bg9tourn.txt


Player Neilyo continues to harass me with private messages:
http://www.veevsvault.com/SK_Neilyo.txt


And the following is a chat log of player Mykke, the actual person who supposedly lagged, and whose opinions on the whole matter seem to change over the course of the hour: (Likely after being yelled at by Neilyo and/or Trance)

http://www.veevsvault.com/SK_Mykke.txt



I think it is very unfortunate that a friendly tournament like this has had to come to the extreme measure of emailing the hosting company's owners, but I feel we have been put in such an unfair position that we are left with no other choice. We have a great deal of respect for SK-Gaming, and are very appreciative that you are hosting the first 5v5 tournament, giving players an opportunity to compete like they never had before. But the way we have been treated by a select few of your members has left us feeling shocked and assaulted, and leaves us with no other course of action but to contact you.


I have postponed our match until Wednesday night, and hope to hear from you soon. Your response will determine how we proceed with this tournament match, or if we allow them to win by forfeit.


Many thanks and best regards,
Veex


The SK owners then forwarded the email to Gosey, the manager of their WoW team, and I was met with this reply:



Hello Veex,


My name is Sebastian aka gosey and I'm the manager of the SK Gaming World of Warcraft team. First of all I'm sorry for all the troubles this game has caused and I hope you guys can figure something out together.


After talking to the SK members and reading your guys statements, I can't really say anything that it's your words against eachother. SK claims that the disconnect affected the match while you guys don't. Unfortunately I can't really give you an opinion on what should be done since I wasn't there . However trance is running the show and we have absolute faith in the great job he's doing with the tournament.


You have to know that trance is working for our website, which is a totally different part of SK, and has no connection with the team.


Personally I would like to see the match replayed, but then again I wasn't there to see it happen so who am I to give advice. I know that the rules have been changed now since this incident, which is great so we don't have to run into this problem anymore. Of course it sucks for you guys since you were on a roll, but I think that the SK players feel that they are the underdog in this matchup (and I agree with them) which in some way could explain what they are doing.


We do however apologize for our players behaviour, it's totally unprofessional and it's something that we'll have to work on. I hope that you guys can come down to your senses and maybe proove the SK players that the disconnect wouldn't have affected the match.


Thanks for letting us know your view on this matter and once again apologizes to you and your teammates for the behaviour of some of our players.


Best Regards,

Sebastian Selin
SK Gaming


A sincere and civil reply, which I did appreciate, but the part quoted in bold only left me even more infuriated. We have appealed to the powers that be and achieved nothing, so now we are left with two options: do whatever they say or drop out of the tournament.

If this was a 1v1 tournament I personally would have already dropped out, because it absolutely disgusts me to see a team of players (or at least one player, Neilyo) try to get away with something so low and dishonest like this. No matter the outcome now, many of their names and the tournament itself is already tarnished in my eyes.

But I am not going to let my opinions put my team at a disadvantage, so we will wait and see what they have to say tonight before we decide what we are doing. Trance approached me again last night, several hours after this event had passed, and had this to say (after he allowed me to show him the various logs and screenshots to backup our side of the story): "I will tell you that this info does look better for your side though."

So, to be concluded...

     
178 comments
JohoArthas
JohoArthas Feb 27, 2008 at 6:22 pm
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+9 votes
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Just putting it out there:
If Neilyo is claiming his the underdog because of comp makeup.
LOL.

His freaking running the euro comp in a torny filled of 2345/2346.
His had a free ride so far.

Atleast you guys realize that you also have an advantage comp wise.
Diego
Diego Feb 27, 2008 at 8:30 pm
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Wow how can anyone possibly respect Neilyo? Kid needs a serious ass kicking.

I also lost a lot of respect for SK-Gaming with that reply from Gosey, what a bunch of garbage. Basically he said I'm too much of a chump to make a decision about it so I'm going to use trance (who's obviously biased and incredibly unprofessional) as a scapegoat.
nevzii
nevzii Feb 27, 2008 at 6:27 pm
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Friendly WoW tournaments without prize money is serious business.
Appletree
Appletree Feb 27, 2008 at 6:54 pm
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Whoever wins the top 4 spots in this tournament will recieve invites to the Blizzard Summer Final Invitational, though some players may be excluded for no identifiable reason. Players will be notified at least 1 1/2 days in advance of the competition if they are invited and will compete for a $250,000 prize pool. The competition will take place in somewhere in Asia or Europe.
Twizink
Twizink Feb 27, 2008 at 7:19 pm
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This is not that tourney.  This is a "fun" tourney.
Vtar
Vtar Feb 27, 2008 at 7:21 pm
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^ What the hell?  When did this happen?  I remember a week ago Gumbot saying the only point to winning this tourny was bragging rights (although he may have said something I managed to miss - but I doubt it).  Either I missed mention of a Blizzard 5v5 tourny (I've only heard about the 3v3 tourny) or you're just retarded.

(directed at Appletree)
kaleidoscopelol
kaleidoscopelol Feb 27, 2008 at 7:23 pm
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Vtar
Vtar Feb 27, 2008 at 7:28 pm
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Apparently.  I guess I should have picked up on the 1 1/2 days notification (probably skimmed over it).
TehJerk
TehJerk Feb 27, 2008 at 6:30 pm
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ummmm if its best of 5 WTF do you guys have replays for games where someone D/C's? Thats a joke, right? I mean i can understand before the fight happens someone D/C's and you all call it off, but in the middle of a match? Thats retarded, especially given its a best of 5 series. **** happens, and if you D/C in the middle of a match thats a part of the game.

I do think its lame tho that you guys are the favorites and wont replay it, and its not a game that decides the outcome anyways. I understand general principles, but most of you should be greatful that there are tourneys for prize money that you all get to play in. Most of you should be going out of your way to make it work instead of being very self-centered over something that might be wrong in your eyes, but its the decision the sponsors made. And they are the reason why you even have these in the first place. Its just alot of you seem really ungreatful for the people/companies that host these events, and they are shelling out money that i dont know how they makeup for it w/ ESports in WoW being what it is.

last question is how the hell did that priest go OOM mana burning w/o burning someones mana? it seemed like the way you described it that Priest was mana burning some Pally in a bubble until he went OOM, and then you all realized it, and ff'd him. Did he actually drain healer/caster mana while going OOM at least?

edit- nm didnt realize it was just a 'friendly' tourney w/ no prize money.  who cares then?
Valrath
Valrath Feb 27, 2008 at 6:37 pm
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+3 votes
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He claimed a *4 sec* lag spike in a 7 min game he did not DC.
Buldoz
Buldoz Feb 27, 2008 at 6:36 pm
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This Badlust tournament is everything I expected, and so much more.
Kintt
Kintt Feb 27, 2008 at 6:38 pm
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From what I understand, there wasn't even a disconnect, just a lag spike.  Sorry SK, but there can't be god damn replays for lagging, because in the future everytime someone loses they are gonna claim they were lagging.

After thinking more about it, I also think that disconnects should result in a loss too, unless both teams agree to replay the match.  If the team who would have won the match wishes to take the high road when an obvious early game disconnect takes place wants to grant a replay they can, otherwise tough luck.  It's the best way to avoid drama in the future.

Regardless, after talking to your team, the general consesus is that you can still win, replays or not.  So channel your dark chakra and play either way the stone falls on the matches, and achieve your destiny.
Stryider
Stryider Feb 27, 2008 at 7:07 pm
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Kyle P.
Kyle P. Feb 27, 2008 at 9:34 pm
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I lol'ed at "dark chakra" too. Also, I completely agree with Kintt. SK is setting an AWFUL precedent if they make TSG replay that match. Honestly though, I know Trance and while I don't understand the situation intimately I do believe he is not the kind of player who would try to play favorites. Hes probably making the mistake of trying to make everyone happy - and that never ends well.
Adzzy
Adzzy Feb 28, 2008 at 2:31 am
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I thought all along, only one dc should be allowed, just like sporting events, one false start, and after that, it's tough ****, and as for a replay for lagging, just lol, i remember xahlior playing tournament realm on 800 ms :P
Godsmak
Godsmak Feb 28, 2008 at 12:04 pm
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Veex
Veex Feb 27, 2008 at 6:40 pm
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I care, I care after having to fight just to get our team invited to the tournament, and after sitting through lengthy qualifying rounds only to end up being faced with this disaster in the semi-finals.  As you said yourself, there is no prize money, it's just a matter of principle.  It may seem like a big fuss over nothing, but if you were in our shoes you'd probably better understand.

If someone blatantly tries to cheat you out of a win, what would you do?  Just sit there and let them, because there's no cash prize?
Kintt
Kintt Feb 27, 2008 at 6:46 pm
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If I was as confident as you guys come off, I would simply replay the match and not make a big deal about it.  I'm not saying you aren't right, but I am saying that your team thinks you can still win, so don't forfeit...
Veex
Veex Feb 27, 2008 at 6:50 pm
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As I said, it's really a matter of principle.  What you're advising that we do is EXACTLY what they were hoping would happen.

And believe me, if they're allowed to disregard every future loss they get, I'm sure they'd eventually manage to get 3 wins against us.  We haven't been steamrolling them, both matches have been pretty good games so far.
Kintt
Kintt Feb 27, 2008 at 6:56 pm
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I understand that, and I think you are right in contesting it.  BUT, if it doesn't turn out for you, still play the matches -.-
Stryider
Stryider Feb 27, 2008 at 7:09 pm
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And what happens if they lose?  SK definately wouldn't be heralded as the champions because of this trash and TSG would suffer an incredible amount in the public eye.  It's lose/lose for them in most cases.
Capstone
Capstone Feb 27, 2008 at 7:27 pm
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The argument here isn't whether or not TSG feels like they can beat SK twice in a three game series at this point, it's whether or not TSG is willing to play if they have to go back and play a game that they believe they had won because SK demands that they do so.  Honestly, if they are right, there is no reason they should have to go back as a team and play the games against SK, but since it's clearly arguable as to who was right, both teams might be better off just playing the games again.  It should go without saying that if one of your players is lagging you should make that clear and let the other team know that you can't play right now if you feel like it might cost you a game.  Since there's a dispute regarding what would've happened, I feel like for the sake of the tournament one of the two teams should suck it up and continue the series.  I'd hate to see this whole thing go up in flames because of a one game dispute between two very good teams; if bloodlust can't get this tournament under control, how can we expect any other private tournament to be set up effectively?

Totally unrelated to the topic, this tourny has really made me upset at the current state of 5s and I hope blizzard can fix things for the better.
Inactive
Inactive Feb 27, 2008 at 8:19 pm unhide comment
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Sele
Sele Feb 28, 2008 at 8:19 am
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Inactive go cry somewhere else, you are really boring.
Godsmak
Godsmak Feb 28, 2008 at 12:06 pm
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Uhh Inactive? Don't you say the same **** about 2s and 3s? This is ******* WoW people, get it through your heads, this game should just be played for fun, not competitively or seriously.

WOW IS NOT A E-SPORT
Mathia
Mathia Feb 27, 2008 at 6:43 pm
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Eriaa
Eriaa Feb 27, 2008 at 6:44 pm
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This is what happens when you deal with childern who have to resort to calling people fhaggots. Of course the SK guy wants a replay, it's his team. IMO host teams shouldn't be aloud in, and someone who works for the host, no matter what they do for the host, even if they bring them lunch every day, should not be aloud to make judgement calls. Trance is a good guy and all, but it just looks bad from the outside when someone who is with the host of the tourney, is making calls to give their team a chance, even if he is not directly part of the team. Really should rethink some things next time around. So far this tourney seems to be full of drama.
Stryider
Stryider Feb 27, 2008 at 7:10 pm
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I agree, it's a MASSIVE conflict of interest.
Zolz
Zolz Feb 27, 2008 at 6:50 pm
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Regardless of what happened, should have just complied and been done with it.
Mykkeh
Mykkeh Feb 27, 2008 at 6:51 pm
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I was at around 2k mana and enemy mage was oom with evo down, druid was about 40%? The lag did effect me dieing prematurely, and i believe both teams felt they had the advantage at that point. 

Drop off in irc text for about 30 minutes was due to our talk with trance, figured i'd just clairfy on some points with veex, i believe he got the wrong idea from what i was saying.  Probably was being way to civil/understanding in my irc chat.
Kintt
Kintt Feb 27, 2008 at 6:55 pm
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It doesn't matter really.  People's perception of the fight are heavily changed as soon as they lag, disconnect.  This can be best proven by CLC's game against Fnatic.  CLC was fairly confident they would have had a chance had their paladin not disconnected, however in reality, I don't think they really would have.  Your lag may have changed the fight, but I'm willing to bet it wasn't as close as it seems.  4 seconds of lag does not warrant a replay either, and if it did, this tournament would be setting a terrible precedent for the future.  EVERY loss would have a lag complaint, well most meaningful matches anyway.
TehJerk
TehJerk Feb 27, 2008 at 6:57 pm
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yea i figured someone had to have taken those manaburns.  just the picture painted made it seem like you were oom and about to die anyways, lag or not.

that said you guys shouldnt expect a rematch over lag IMO.  i feel for you it sucks to get unexpected lag but thats a part of online play.
BEASTWOOD
BEASTWOOD Feb 27, 2008 at 7:28 pm
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+3 votes
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I blinked and missed half a second of the game... REPLAY
Vtar
Vtar Feb 27, 2008 at 7:40 pm
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you blink kinda slow n stuff?
Nedd
Nedd Feb 27, 2008 at 8:36 pm
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Ya I don't get it you used smite on a pet, you were spell locked for it, your druid wasn't in LoS.  You died.  I don't understand what exactly lag affected?  You obviously couldn't move far because of hamstring, and you couldn't get healed by your druid anyway.  If anyone else on your team would have lagged it would make more sense.  Are you trying to say you only got spell locked because of a 4 second lag?  I doubt Veex would need a 4 second window to spell lock.  Or you couldn't keep yourself up?  Because judging from the combat log you wouldn't have been able to keep yourself up anyway.
Ninjaninja
Ninjaninja Feb 28, 2008 at 1:38 am
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Lag = bull**** excuse on any level.
Adzzy
Adzzy Feb 28, 2008 at 2:35 am
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that thing with fnatic was ridiculous, the moment you go 1 down against triple cc, the game is as good as over, whether they have no mana or not, you have about 6 seconds to get a kill, and your healer not being there doesn't really change that element.
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