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by Exitec, Level 47
Last updated at March 8, 2008, 4:15 pm
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Many people today have beaten the "Arena Problems" horse to death, but after talking to Sck I think a new perspective has been thrown out there, at least through the eyes of a well regarded Paladin in the arena scene. Sck, famously known for helping his team win countless WoW tournaments, and playing under the Team Pandemic Sponsor, I trust to have a pretty good grasp on the whole "arena balance" discussion. Here are some of the things we talked about.
Addons
First off, I think it is safe to say that the use of Addons will never go away. We all remember the days of Cosmos, back 3 years ago when the HK/PvP System was first introduced into WoW, and the days where a mod showing what buffs your opponent had on was considered "OP." But today, things have escalated to a "no turning back" point, where almost anything goes. Many people can blame losses on addons, and many can attribute their successes to what addons they use - but why?
Affix, being one of the most well known Mages not only on BG9, but in the Mage community as well, (sign my staff plz?) has constantly been bugged about his addon use; good or bad. After he releases a video, it seems every comment regarding his addons is either "Wow where did you get that one!" or "Wow l2p, need addons much?" I personally, after playing WoW for years without more than 3 addons activated at the same time, have never really seen a reason to clutter my screen with such a mess of bars, timers, and pictures that tell you when/where everything is happening, as if you are deaf and blind, and are zoomed into your character so far you can't see your own d1ck below your cute little Gladiator Cowl.
For tournaments like WSVG, Sck, Nappy (Napster), and a few others put together an addon package known as Rupture, which was used by many right after WSVG before Proximo came out. It was a pretty basic package, just accentuating what was already in the game into more organized bars and timers. This was the only package allowed for WSVG, and all other addons were prohibited for WSVG. What does this mean? Well, using Affix as an example, when another live tournament rolls around, and the use of his 400 different addons are not allowed, will he be screwed? As Sck said, he doesn't judge a player by his arena ratings, or what addons he uses, but as a player as a whole. The problem is, when Affix releases a video, and you can't even see whats going on because there is a giant picture of a sheep waddling across his screen to let him know his sheep just broke, because he has replaced player awareness with an addon to do it for him - I think that says something about what kind of player he really is.
Personally, I don't really see a reason to have so many addons. I have proximo so I can call out the targets at the beginning of the match (I actually don't target through proximo), and I have the addon showing me my focus targets cast bar - simply because not using that addon puts you at a severe disadvantage at this stage of the game. Past that, I keep myself distant from everything, and am aware of what is going on around me at all times. While I do realize certain addons ARE needed for the kind of game WoW has turned into (like the focus bar for cs's in 5s, because 5s are just a cluster-fk in general), I really think having an addon for everything in this game is a bit excessive.
3v3 Tournament
While Sck was unable to announce what compositions Team Pandemic will be playing at the next 3v3 tournament, we were able to talk a bit about how the tournament overall will be run.
With the decision to run the 3v3 tournament in S2 gear, we talked a lot about whether or not old comps will be viable again, with things like armor pen and increased armor on certain sets less of a problem. The problem is, everyone is going to be running whatever their current comps are, because that is what they are most comfortable with - not something they played 4 months ago. They also know (through the experience of S3 thus far) what works and what doesn't based on talent changes, gear changes, gemming, etc. It will basically be like playing in the past, with the knowledge we have of the future. (Back to the Future style)
As far as competition goes, Sck stated that he didn't think there will ever be another kind of competition before WotLK that resembled the competition felt during S1. It isn't the gear, or the talents, but the fact that there was such a big learning curve for arenas when S1 came out, and that was what sparked so much competition. The same will happen with WotLK, the problem is that things will eventually fall back to where they are now - dull, and without much light at the end of the tunnel. This game is constantly changing, and the learning process was what enticed so many players into the arena system in the first place. Now, it is X team losing to Y team, and nobody is concerned with maintaining top spots, because there is no reason anymore. (Kind of why when you load my arena page, you see me with 1800 ratings. Same can probably be applied to 60% of the people on any BG who were gladiators the past 2 seasons.)
Fixing The Problem
With the release of the test realm focused 100% on PvP, it was very apparent that with PvE as such a primary focus in this game, the PvP aspect will never be balanced to its potential. With talents being too strong in both PvP and PvE, and gear in PvE being almost completely worthless in terms of PvP competition (besides paladins/shaman/druids) this games PvP will always be prioritized 2nd to making sure the PvE part still works.
Anyone who has hopped on the 3v3 public realm for the upcoming tournament will tell you what is going on there is out of control. People can hardly buy gear, let alone play without lagging due to the amount of players there. If the Devs took 9 realms like the Test Realm, took out raiding there, sat down, and really focused on the PvP Problems, I guarantee you this game would skyrocket in terms of PvP again - probably to the point where world pvp would happen again, your name would mean something instead of "oh that is just X teams Mage," and WoW could have the potential to be an e-sport.
With things like Sunwell, this game is constantly changing where with new gear, huge changes ensue, without any intent to change anything on the Dev's part. With t6 globals from Sunwell, that can introduce tons of new comps in arenas simply because of gear scaling. Armor pen S3 did the same thing. Sunwell isn't just an addition to the game, it is a major change for every class just because of the new gear being added into the game, with the little to no stat caps WoW has in the first place.
Hopefully Blizzard considers this idea, and we will one day see a battlegroup focused on nothing but PvP. If you want to raid, level a new character on a PvE server and have fun there, but don't let it affect the most competitive part of this game, which is the PvP. Anyone who saw how fast BG9 became "the place to be" when S1 came to close, would be blown away at the hype that would follow if a battlegroup was released for nothing but PvP purposes.
We can only hope...

67 comments
Inactive Mar 8, 2008 at 5:54 pm
+1 votes
You missed everything he said. If you can't keep track of the majority of spells being cast, that is your problem. He was saying AddOns generally make up for ****ty player awareness, which is one of the very few skill factors in the game. Players play off their UI, not the field.
Sck has been playing arena on his paladin.
Sck has been playing arena on his paladin.
MatsT Mar 8, 2008 at 7:06 pm
+0 votes
No one can keep perfect count of when exactly diminishing return timers are going to reset, or when the opposing mages counterspells comes off cooldown.
Inactive Mar 8, 2008 at 8:43 pm
+1 votes
so instead, there is 0 margin of error with mods. That's a pretty big thing that differentiates people: The ability to communicate well, keep track of DRs and other peoples cool down. NOPE, instead your mod can do it for you.
MatsT Mar 9, 2008 at 8:39 am
+1 votes
I'm not saying that using mods does not remove an element of skill and make the game easier to play. I'm just saying that there is no way you will play as good as you could if you were using these mods. Not using them is handicapping yourself. Perhaps the game would be a better game with even more limitations on what was possible via addons, but that doesn't seem like it's gonna happen anytime soon.
Azure Mar 8, 2008 at 6:14 pm
+2 votes
I don't know about you but generally we call out in vent when important abilities are used by the other team because usually they are on one of us or obvious that they have been used.
kwikkE Mar 8, 2008 at 9:17 pm
+1 votes
STRANGE THAT PEOPLE COULD COUNT QUADS AND MEGAS THEN BUT WOW PLAYERS ARE BADDIES
Gumbot Mar 8, 2008 at 9:37 pm
+1 votes
I got my finger on the trigger and my eye on the quad. come play me on q3 i miss it. Also there was a timer in q3.
prs Mar 9, 2008 at 12:48 am
+1 votes
a general timer is a lot different than a countdown timer. that and in cpma theres only minutes.
personally I think mods are stupid and wish they were regulated more but whatever. pretty dumb that you can have 0 awareness but still do well because a huge wall of text tells you everything thats going on. I think focus is one of the most retarded things in the game. its like have a mini screen in the top hand corner in an fps game showing you what your opponent is doing (not as drastic as that but the same concept.)
personally I think mods are stupid and wish they were regulated more but whatever. pretty dumb that you can have 0 awareness but still do well because a huge wall of text tells you everything thats going on. I think focus is one of the most retarded things in the game. its like have a mini screen in the top hand corner in an fps game showing you what your opponent is doing (not as drastic as that but the same concept.)
Doogless Mar 8, 2008 at 4:23 pm
+3 votes
The whole article reads like it's just a rant/whine from you, with occasional "oh yeah and Sck said this" thrown in. If you actually interviewed him in-depth, it doesn't come across at all in your blog. Considering as how his name is in the title of the article, I was expecting more from him than just a passing mention.
Exitec Mar 8, 2008 at 4:25 pm
-4 votes
Not a fan of the whole "let's put in italics what he said, and then i'l script out what I said, etc." Just wasn't really needed for this article.
And apparently conveying your thoughts = whining. I'd like to hear you talk in vent sir, you prolly sound like a dying giraffe if that is your impression of "crying."
And apparently conveying your thoughts = whining. I'd like to hear you talk in vent sir, you prolly sound like a dying giraffe if that is your impression of "crying."
Doogless Mar 8, 2008 at 4:29 pm
+2 votes
Glad to see you respond to criticism so well.
Me: It's hard to tell apart what Sck said from what you're saying, and the problems you bring up are nothing new.
You: NO AND I BET YOU SUCK IRL.
Me: It's hard to tell apart what Sck said from what you're saying, and the problems you bring up are nothing new.
You: NO AND I BET YOU SUCK IRL.
saqe Mar 8, 2008 at 4:31 pm
+1 votes
The problem is, when Affix releases a video, and you can't even see whats going on because there is a giant picture of a sheep waddling across his screen to let him know his sheep just broke, because he has replaced player awareness with an addon to do it for him - I think that says something about what kind of player he really is.
hahahaahah
hahahaahah
Nennx Mar 8, 2008 at 4:50 pm
+0 votes
I don't see how you can say this game is more of a PvE game than it was before. If anything, blizzard has screwed over raiders to make the game more enjoyable for casuals and PvPers.
wsvg Mar 8, 2008 at 5:19 pm
+2 votes
The players holding the top spots in the arena ladder use everything possible at their disposal to win. We've known this for how long things like ignore/shadowresist, etc. Criticizing someone for their use or overuse of addons just seems like a copout and a way to try and discredit someones success anyway possible.
klol Mar 8, 2008 at 7:16 pm
+3 votes
Except at least Jasi's rants have a tiny amount of substance instead of just trash with "Sck said" tossed in every so often
Eriaa Mar 8, 2008 at 5:45 pm
+1 votes
I think the current ratings would be a lot different if mods weren't aloud. Focus to me is lame, it allows a mage to tunnel vision and not be aware of his/her surroundings. They just see that focus bar that says holy light and POW CSed without even knowing where the paladin is half the time.
But can you blame people? Of course not. Whatever makes it easier to win is what players will do. Was the /ignore mod lame? Yep, but that's what players do when they want to win.
As for the pure pvp server or whatever? Won't ever happen. The only reason you see so many people on the TTR atm is because it's free. Once the 20 dollar fee comes around, you won't see as many people. Will there be a lot? Probably, but I doubt you will even see 1/4th of WoWs population joining in on it, but 1/4th is still a lot of people.
For me, I don't understand where blizzard is trying to go with this game atm. If you can get weapons that are just as good as the games end boss by doing arena, then what's the point of raiding? Mostly anyone can get 1850, and if you can't you can certain pay someone gold to help you do it. I'm not a big time raider, but I like to see the content and at least try to experience the whole game and get my moneys worth. I really think if blizzard wants to make this an e-sport, they need to make a new game with a new rule set to cut out all the BS that we see today, and leave the core game alone. It's a win win for everyone. The raiders continue to get some of the best items, and the pvpers can have their arena playground.
But can you blame people? Of course not. Whatever makes it easier to win is what players will do. Was the /ignore mod lame? Yep, but that's what players do when they want to win.
As for the pure pvp server or whatever? Won't ever happen. The only reason you see so many people on the TTR atm is because it's free. Once the 20 dollar fee comes around, you won't see as many people. Will there be a lot? Probably, but I doubt you will even see 1/4th of WoWs population joining in on it, but 1/4th is still a lot of people.
For me, I don't understand where blizzard is trying to go with this game atm. If you can get weapons that are just as good as the games end boss by doing arena, then what's the point of raiding? Mostly anyone can get 1850, and if you can't you can certain pay someone gold to help you do it. I'm not a big time raider, but I like to see the content and at least try to experience the whole game and get my moneys worth. I really think if blizzard wants to make this an e-sport, they need to make a new game with a new rule set to cut out all the BS that we see today, and leave the core game alone. It's a win win for everyone. The raiders continue to get some of the best items, and the pvpers can have their arena playground.
Snuffy Mar 9, 2008 at 12:37 am
+1 votes
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Patties Mar 8, 2008 at 5:52 pm
+1 votes
The whole making a battlegroup purely for pvp wouldn't work. There are too many players out there who like to pvp and pve and probably would prefer not to be stuck to one aspect of the game.
Inactive Mar 8, 2008 at 6:03 pm
+1 votes
there can be hybrid servers for their cash crop to support WoW.
there can be strictly PvE and PvP servers, it wouldn't be hard.
there can be strictly PvE and PvP servers, it wouldn't be hard.
Gifv Mar 8, 2008 at 7:37 pm
+1 votes
although i doubt there will ever be strictly pve servers, who would like that? the normal servers still exist so you can have your blend if you want...
Nennx Mar 9, 2008 at 4:46 am
+1 votes
Theres very few people who strictly just hardcore PvE anymore, and of the people who do, I highly doubt any of them are going to be rerolling just to PvE with people who only want to PvE. PvE servers already suck as it is, and in general, have lower population than PvP servers. With arena already being introduced, you're going to find very few people who will just PvE full time and never want to step foot into an arena ever. On the other hand, a full PvP server/BG is a good idea just because people won't be making up excuses for losing or feel obligated to PvE just to gain an edge in arena.



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