POST STUFF
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 by F8L Fool, Level 14
Last updated at November 7, 2009, 11:32 pm
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Just incase you forgot already, BioWare were the geniuses behind Knights of the Old Republic, Neverwinter Nights, and the Baldur's Gate series among others (Mass Effect, anyone?).
If you take nothing else away from this blog, or simply stop reading here, remember this: Get this game on PC!
DA:O was in my top ten most anticipated games of the year and tied for first in terms of Q4 releases, right along with CoD: MW2. I am a console loyalist at heart and only purchase games on the PC that I strongly feel have an edge. Going off of past experiences with BioWare multi-platform games alone, I felt strongly that their 360 port would be satisfactory, and I was very mistaken.
The game feels like a PC game that was dumb downed for a console. The interface was literally ravaged and stripped down to bare bones. It is functional, but it's not very fluent or convenient by any means. The targeting system also suffers because of this.
There's so much to address in this game that it's a bit overwhelming. So I'll just touch on a few key points, and save the rest for a later blog:
Combat: This is a mixed bag for me. It's my favorite feature, and somehow my second biggest gripe. Certain aspects of it I find very intuitive and enjoyable. Like the recent console RPG releases Infinite Undiscovery and Magnacarta 2 you are fighting in real time, in a semi-open world, with one to three other characters simultaneously. However unlike Infinite Undiscovery where you were forced to control only one character directly throughout the entire story, in DA:O you can toggle across to every character to control them manually as you see fit.
+The Good+:
+ Superb "tactics" system which allows you to fully customize how any and all of your party members fight while controlled by AI. It functions extremely well and allows you to have a lot of control of how everyone behaves from scenario to scenario. You want a character to use X ability when Y target is stunned? You can set that in tactics. You want your character to drain life when they hit 50% HP? You can set that in tactics. You want them to go taunt the monster that attacks your healer? Yep, you guessed it, customizable in tactics. My personal favorite is setting a player to automatically pot (and which pot you want them to use) when they reach a certain amount of mana and/or health.
+ Superb "tactics" system which allows you to fully customize how any and all of your party members fight while controlled by AI. It functions extremely well and allows you to have a lot of control of how everyone behaves from scenario to scenario. You want a character to use X ability when Y target is stunned? You can set that in tactics. You want your character to drain life when they hit 50% HP? You can set that in tactics. You want them to go taunt the monster that attacks your healer? Yep, you guessed it, customizable in tactics. My personal favorite is setting a player to automatically pot (and which pot you want them to use) when they reach a certain amount of mana and/or health.
+ Challenging fights that force you to use strategy and utilize all of your abilities. If you play on Nightmare mode like I did get used to lots of saving because dying is commonplace.
+ Unique spell/ability interactions. Certain spells have their effects amplified, or unique results when used in combination with other attacks. Example: If you freeze a target then have your rogue, that if specced right gets guaranteed crits on frozen/stunned targets, the target has a chance to "shatter" and be instantly killed.
-The Bad-
- Melee can be quirky and unpredictable at times. Sometimes wide arching attacks hit nearby opponents, sometimes they don't. If a target is running away when you do a melee attack it often doesn't land. On the flipside the enemy has the weird ability to swing and hit you from absurdly far away (even though the animation clearly shows you avoided a blow).
- Any movement whatsoever cancels your spells and auto-attack. This can be extremely frustrating and can cause serious loss of DPS. If you move one foot to the left to backstab, your character shouldn't just sit there like an idiot staring fondly at the enemy he was just demolishing.
- Some spells say friendly fire possible, but do nothing. Others absolutely rock your entire party. Inferno vs. Earthquake, or Cone of Cold vs. Shock. Earthquake knocks enemies and friendlies down, but inferno does nothing at all. Cone freezes everyone, but shock does nothing. This is most noteworthy on lower difficulty settings where your characters take no actual damage, but still have other after effects.
Dialogue: You can sum up this games dialogue in one word: abundant. Every creature and character you interact with has its own voice acting, and I do mean every single last one. Not only that, but the VA is exceptionally well acted, consistent, and immersive. Literally hours of dialogue is packed into this game. It's also quite refreshing that BioWare took the high road and didn't go into crazy accents and tones for each race. Star Wars and LoTR has enough of that as is.
Character Customization & Development: This is my absolute biggest pet-peeve in the entire game!!!!! The game is capped at 25 levels. After each level you are able to distribute three attribute points across stats like strength, dexterity, etc. and one talent point into an ability of your choosing. Each ability has pre-requisites like a certain amount of one stat and/or level.
This is all fine and dandy, but there are some unique problems as well because of this. The talents are set in tiers or four. Generally speaking you'd think the fourth tiered skill would be the best, but that isn't always the case. I find that the first and second tiered skills are usually the most powerful.
Not only that, but the descriptions of the skills are so damn vague and inaccurate that you don't know the full function of it until you use it in battle. This wouldn't be so bad if you could reset your damn talent trees in any way, regardless of difficulty or cost.
In the end you find yourself either with a bunch of useless stuff (I started out with 2H weapons, and swapped to dual-wield leaving me with four wasted damn points in 2H), or you have to stick with what you started out with originally in order to make use of those talents.
+The Good+
+ Unique spell/ability interactions. Certain spells have their effects amplified, or unique results when used in combination with other attacks. Example: If you freeze a target then have your rogue, that if specced right gets guaranteed crits on frozen/stunned targets, the target has a chance to "shatter" and be instantly killed.
-The Bad-
- Melee can be quirky and unpredictable at times. Sometimes wide arching attacks hit nearby opponents, sometimes they don't. If a target is running away when you do a melee attack it often doesn't land. On the flipside the enemy has the weird ability to swing and hit you from absurdly far away (even though the animation clearly shows you avoided a blow).
- Any movement whatsoever cancels your spells and auto-attack. This can be extremely frustrating and can cause serious loss of DPS. If you move one foot to the left to backstab, your character shouldn't just sit there like an idiot staring fondly at the enemy he was just demolishing.
- Some spells say friendly fire possible, but do nothing. Others absolutely rock your entire party. Inferno vs. Earthquake, or Cone of Cold vs. Shock. Earthquake knocks enemies and friendlies down, but inferno does nothing at all. Cone freezes everyone, but shock does nothing. This is most noteworthy on lower difficulty settings where your characters take no actual damage, but still have other after effects.
Dialogue: You can sum up this games dialogue in one word: abundant. Every creature and character you interact with has its own voice acting, and I do mean every single last one. Not only that, but the VA is exceptionally well acted, consistent, and immersive. Literally hours of dialogue is packed into this game. It's also quite refreshing that BioWare took the high road and didn't go into crazy accents and tones for each race. Star Wars and LoTR has enough of that as is.
Character Customization & Development: This is my absolute biggest pet-peeve in the entire game!!!!! The game is capped at 25 levels. After each level you are able to distribute three attribute points across stats like strength, dexterity, etc. and one talent point into an ability of your choosing. Each ability has pre-requisites like a certain amount of one stat and/or level.
This is all fine and dandy, but there are some unique problems as well because of this. The talents are set in tiers or four. Generally speaking you'd think the fourth tiered skill would be the best, but that isn't always the case. I find that the first and second tiered skills are usually the most powerful.
Not only that, but the descriptions of the skills are so damn vague and inaccurate that you don't know the full function of it until you use it in battle. This wouldn't be so bad if you could reset your damn talent trees in any way, regardless of difficulty or cost.
In the end you find yourself either with a bunch of useless stuff (I started out with 2H weapons, and swapped to dual-wield leaving me with four wasted damn points in 2H), or you have to stick with what you started out with originally in order to make use of those talents.
+The Good+
+ Vast amounts of talents that will allow you to craft a character to suit your unique playstyle. The Rogue and Mage have vastly more talents than the Warrior but there's a lot of room for variation.
+ Solid character creation mechanics. The females features look much more polished than the males however, and they have many more options.
+ Imaginative popularity feature that allows you to gain favor with other characters in your party. This opens up new specializations for you and your party, as well as stat bonuses. The more you interact with a character the more you'll know what to say and what gifts they want. It's pretty cool.
-The Bad-
+ Solid character creation mechanics. The females features look much more polished than the males however, and they have many more options.
+ Imaginative popularity feature that allows you to gain favor with other characters in your party. This opens up new specializations for you and your party, as well as stat bonuses. The more you interact with a character the more you'll know what to say and what gifts they want. It's pretty cool.
-The Bad-
- NO WAY TO RESET TALENTS/SKILLS. Being stuck with a spell that is absolute trash, or an entire tree that you used at level 7 but not at 21 is unacceptable. Even if there was a huge fee or lengthy quest to reimburse SOME of your talents, that'd be ok.
- When you gain a new party member (character) their talents/attributes are already set. This means if you're level 16 when you get a new member the AI automatically distributed the points. So you could essentially be getting a carbon copy of your character or another party member, rather than being able to make them more unique to fill a new role.
- When you gain a new party member (character) their talents/attributes are already set. This means if you're level 16 when you get a new member the AI automatically distributed the points. So you could essentially be getting a carbon copy of your character or another party member, rather than being able to make them more unique to fill a new role.
- Most of the specialization trees are horrible. If you pay good money for a book or work hard to get a character to teach you a new spec, it should contain worthwhile skills. Berserker and Shapeshifter are two good examples of lackluster specs.
- Warriors and Rogues play far too much alike. There's not enough of a difference between the two to distinguish them apart. A Berserk Dual-Wielder plays just like an Assassin Dual-Wielder almost to the T.
- Warriors and Rogues play far too much alike. There's not enough of a difference between the two to distinguish them apart. A Berserk Dual-Wielder plays just like an Assassin Dual-Wielder almost to the T.
In closing: There's a ton of good things to say about Dragon Age: Origins. The good absolutely outweighs the bad and it's nice to see a refreshing, lengthy, challenging, and story driven RPG for a change. You definitely feel like you're on an epic journey in this game, and it's really fulfilling.
If you are curious about what system to get this game on, without question it's PC. It's very enjoyable and if you are a fan of story driven RPG's, or any past BioWare RPG's you won't be disappointed.
If you are curious about what system to get this game on, without question it's PC. It's very enjoyable and if you are a fan of story driven RPG's, or any past BioWare RPG's you won't be disappointed.
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Celeras Nov 8, 2009 at 7:52 am
+6 votes
Did you really just say Baldur's Gate had a garbage engine? Wow.
Ghork Nov 8, 2009 at 9:13 am
-4 votes
Yup thats what i said, its a realtime game that you have to pause all the time, they should have made it turn based the combat was down right garbage.
Playing it co-op everytime you wanted to say go back sell something you would have to wait for each party member to go to the border of the map before you could proceed, what i remember most from bg, is waiting to a map border or beeing rushed to a map border by one of my friends waiting.
Their rule system was highly irregular as well a blend between different d&d rulesets. anyways generally i just remember waiting and waiting in that game.
Playing it co-op everytime you wanted to say go back sell something you would have to wait for each party member to go to the border of the map before you could proceed, what i remember most from bg, is waiting to a map border or beeing rushed to a map border by one of my friends waiting.
Their rule system was highly irregular as well a blend between different d&d rulesets. anyways generally i just remember waiting and waiting in that game.
Caydra Nov 8, 2009 at 12:40 pm
+3 votes
That might be a matter of taste I actually liked the combat system.
Ghork Nov 8, 2009 at 1:01 pm
-2 votes
tbh either it should be real time or turn based, DA:O works because of great tactics.
what about all the other things slowing it down such as having to wait for people to zone etc.
what about all the other things slowing it down such as having to wait for people to zone etc.
Ghork Nov 8, 2009 at 9:14 am
-3 votes
oh and exelent fanboism downvoting because i stepped on your precious game
F8L Fool Nov 8, 2009 at 12:55 am
+0 votes
Diablo had superior skill trees, descriptions, and allocation methods. If it wasn't for the vague talent descriptions, not being able to reset wouldn't be a big deal. There weren't an abundance of useless abilities like there are in DA:O.
Oh, and the fact you unlock new specs later on also hurts not being able to move things around. If losing the ability to respec came on Nightmare mode and you traded that off for some other benefits or perks (currently Nightmare mode offers no extra achievements, trophies, items, characters, etc.) then the feature would at least be somewhat justified.
Oh, and the fact you unlock new specs later on also hurts not being able to move things around. If losing the ability to respec came on Nightmare mode and you traded that off for some other benefits or perks (currently Nightmare mode offers no extra achievements, trophies, items, characters, etc.) then the feature would at least be somewhat justified.
jflanden Nov 8, 2009 at 1:19 am
-2 votes
The combat in this game is absolutely atrocious:
-Character pauses for a second when issuing an attack. Run to enemy,
right click while running, COOL my character pauses for a second for
Auto-Follow to kick in...
-You basically can't move at all in this game. To add onto what F8L
Fool said, movement doesn't just stop you from attacking, you will
actually spend the cost/cooldown of an ability for it to be completely
wasted if you move at all. Because of this, the game feels too much
like Auto-Pilot where you are forced to just stick to Auto-Follow or
you actually hurt yourself.
-Did I mention that movement sucks? Even when you are manually moving
your character without interrupting your spells, the movement is VERY
sluggish/unresponsive. It's also fun to move your character behind an
enemy but you were too close to the enemy's model so your character
auto-moves out of his model but ends up infront of the enemy...
-You cannot tab target in this game, you must click on an enemy, which can be annoying.
-Anything that is remotely difficult in this game just turns the combat
into TURN-BASED instead of REAL-TIME as you will spend 90% of your time
PAUSED issuing orders.
Bad combat kills this game for me.
-Character pauses for a second when issuing an attack. Run to enemy,
right click while running, COOL my character pauses for a second for
Auto-Follow to kick in...
-You basically can't move at all in this game. To add onto what F8L
Fool said, movement doesn't just stop you from attacking, you will
actually spend the cost/cooldown of an ability for it to be completely
wasted if you move at all. Because of this, the game feels too much
like Auto-Pilot where you are forced to just stick to Auto-Follow or
you actually hurt yourself.
-Did I mention that movement sucks? Even when you are manually moving
your character without interrupting your spells, the movement is VERY
sluggish/unresponsive. It's also fun to move your character behind an
enemy but you were too close to the enemy's model so your character
auto-moves out of his model but ends up infront of the enemy...
-You cannot tab target in this game, you must click on an enemy, which can be annoying.
-Anything that is remotely difficult in this game just turns the combat
into TURN-BASED instead of REAL-TIME as you will spend 90% of your time
PAUSED issuing orders.
Bad combat kills this game for me.
Eriaa Nov 8, 2009 at 1:21 am
-1 votes
it's not an action rpg...it's tactical, which means you need to think
jflanden Nov 8, 2009 at 1:27 am
+0 votes
Yeah because having good combat would remove the tactical aspect of the game.
kyz Nov 8, 2009 at 2:41 pm
+1 votes
Clearly you do not understand the meaning of tactical.
Combat is almost the exact definition of tactics.
Combat is almost the exact definition of tactics.
Shadow772 Nov 8, 2009 at 1:35 am
-1 votes
Bioware games always have **** combat but the other aspects of the game make up for it no doubt.
Ghork Nov 8, 2009 at 7:41 am
-1 votes
WTF who ever tab targets? l2pointyourmouse
I remember playing against teams who's MA Tab targeted in DAoC, was absolute walkovers.
I'm only playing hard but because of the nice tactic system i hardly ever pause it, i do think its a shame thought that companies dont make games like these turn based instead of trying to make them realtime with pause, look at games like darksun, worked exelent in turn based combat
I remember playing against teams who's MA Tab targeted in DAoC, was absolute walkovers.
I'm only playing hard but because of the nice tactic system i hardly ever pause it, i do think its a shame thought that companies dont make games like these turn based instead of trying to make them realtime with pause, look at games like darksun, worked exelent in turn based combat
Snikkums Nov 8, 2009 at 1:21 am
+4 votes
lol, criticizing a single player RPG as if it were an MMO. And not understanding choice & consequences or what the RP in RPG stands for. Nice!
must...min-max...everything...
must...min-max...everything...
F8L Fool Nov 8, 2009 at 1:41 am
-1 votes
Touching on one of the most anticipated games of the years isn't a bad thing.
Choice of consequence is superb. It's part of what makes an RPG a genuine experience. To kill someone outright or negotiate. To go be good or evil. But to spend a skill point or not shouldn't be a game changing decision that seriously haunts you later on in the game.
You can't save the talents up for a later date either. You either postpone allocating your attributes/skills/talents, or you do all at once. It would be nice to use your attributes, skill points, and save that talent point for the next level when you have the STR requirement for the skill you ACTUALLY want. The game forces you to buy **** you don't need or want and it's really not necessary.
Choice of consequence is superb. It's part of what makes an RPG a genuine experience. To kill someone outright or negotiate. To go be good or evil. But to spend a skill point or not shouldn't be a game changing decision that seriously haunts you later on in the game.
You can't save the talents up for a later date either. You either postpone allocating your attributes/skills/talents, or you do all at once. It would be nice to use your attributes, skill points, and save that talent point for the next level when you have the STR requirement for the skill you ACTUALLY want. The game forces you to buy **** you don't need or want and it's really not necessary.
Snikkums Nov 8, 2009 at 1:58 am
+1 votes
Maybe I'm just used to RPGs where you go in blind and often early character choices are less ideal than you'd like as you play through. To me that's part of the fun, and part of the RPing is in accepting big flaws in talents and stuff. As long as you can still beat the game I don't see a big problem, as that's all you're in competition with. It might be valid criticism but I just don't see why it's that important to a single-player RPG.
Sorry if I was rude, and hope you enjoy the game!
Sorry if I was rude, and hope you enjoy the game!
Eriaa Nov 8, 2009 at 5:55 am
+1 votes
You know...you could save your game before you pick your skills...try them out, then go back to that save game...just a thought.
And yes you can save talent points in DA:O. You can allocate your skill points, then when you get to the talent portion, just hit play and don't assign them. Then when you get to the next level and want something, you can have it.
The entitlement gamers of today boggle my mind.
And yes you can save talent points in DA:O. You can allocate your skill points, then when you get to the talent portion, just hit play and don't assign them. Then when you get to the next level and want something, you can have it.
The entitlement gamers of today boggle my mind.
F8L Fool Nov 8, 2009 at 7:14 am
+0 votes
There is no "just hit play".
You either undo everything, or you allocate the talent points.
Have you even played this game, or do you just like being disagreeable, even if it makes you blatantly wrong? Also the quality of games progress by discussing the features we do and do not like. It's how sequels actually improve upon their predecessors, and genres continue to evolve.
You either undo everything, or you allocate the talent points.
Have you even played this game, or do you just like being disagreeable, even if it makes you blatantly wrong? Also the quality of games progress by discussing the features we do and do not like. It's how sequels actually improve upon their predecessors, and genres continue to evolve.
Eriaa Nov 8, 2009 at 11:18 am
+1 votes
Yes I have. Maybe it's PC only...another reason why PC > console. I have 2 points stored up atm, and I was able to allocate my attribute points, hit next, which moves you to selecting a talent. Instead of selecting a talent, you can just leave it be, and hit play. On the right side of the book at the botton, there are 3 options, clear, previous and play. If you select play, without spending the points, it leaves your talent points be, and you can continue playing and assign them later. I'm not trying to be disagreeable, just trying to inform you that you can in fact save talent points and spend them later. If it's PC only, then that sucks.
F8L Fool Nov 8, 2009 at 7:04 pm
+1 votes
Touché.
That's just a ludicrous alteration to make on the console version. Which tips the scale even more in favor of the PC. Good find.
That's just a ludicrous alteration to make on the console version. Which tips the scale even more in favor of the PC. Good find.
Crocpot Nov 8, 2009 at 2:36 am
+1 votes
Pretty much agree, I HATE that you cant respec, and also there are some other problems with the combat:
When you kill special monsters like ogres, your character does some flashy 5 second animation where he jumps on him and slices him every which way. However, all the other mobs still attack you during this time, and so multiple times ive died with no control of my character because he was 'finishing' another mob. This was really annoying at the fade part, since u only have 1 character to control
In the larger areas like the mines of the dwarf city, I was stuck in combat a few times, and that was really really annoying because I couldnt regen my health or stamina or even zone out until I chased down the mob on the other side of the map that was keeping me in combat
Also stopping auto attack when you move your character is awful
Overall, combat is average at best
graphics are really good
story is excellent (except there are too many boring conversations... I dont want to hear about the blacksmiths relationship with his apprentice esp when it has nothing to do with the story)
and the game is really fun, despite the problems mentioned
I just feel like DA could have been a great game, but it is only a good game because of some of the developers decisions on combat
When you kill special monsters like ogres, your character does some flashy 5 second animation where he jumps on him and slices him every which way. However, all the other mobs still attack you during this time, and so multiple times ive died with no control of my character because he was 'finishing' another mob. This was really annoying at the fade part, since u only have 1 character to control
In the larger areas like the mines of the dwarf city, I was stuck in combat a few times, and that was really really annoying because I couldnt regen my health or stamina or even zone out until I chased down the mob on the other side of the map that was keeping me in combat
Also stopping auto attack when you move your character is awful
Overall, combat is average at best
graphics are really good
story is excellent (except there are too many boring conversations... I dont want to hear about the blacksmiths relationship with his apprentice esp when it has nothing to do with the story)
and the game is really fun, despite the problems mentioned
I just feel like DA could have been a great game, but it is only a good game because of some of the developers decisions on combat
Howdydude Nov 8, 2009 at 2:40 am
+1 votes
Honestly other than then allies having preset talents (which I "fixed" with the command console) and the gift system I'm really enjoying the game so far . Yes combat, especially melee, can be hard to get used to but it works just fine once you have it down pat. I think they did mages very well in this game, really fun to play. Maybe I'm the only one but compared to KotOR Dragon Age's combat is much more enjoyable.
Oneclip Nov 8, 2009 at 3:17 am
+1 votes
Pretty spot on review. One thing i hate is that the loot sparkle lags so much after you killed them so you have to constantly go back to the corpse to make sure you have looted everyone.
nve Nov 8, 2009 at 4:09 am
+1 votes
Getting locked into specs is horrible, I agree.
Funnest way to play so far has been to go deep into setting up tactics. Make sure your tank AI is solid and melee DPS aren't retarded. Then just play a mage and blow **** up... just get used to the friendly fire >_>
Funnest way to play so far has been to go deep into setting up tactics. Make sure your tank AI is solid and melee DPS aren't retarded. Then just play a mage and blow **** up... just get used to the friendly fire >_>
krakhor Nov 8, 2009 at 7:28 am
+1 votes
stopped reading at "I am a console loyalist at heart". Go play some MW2. stupid kids.
F8L Fool Nov 8, 2009 at 8:37 am
+1 votes
Yaaaaa since MW2 isn't on PC's also or anything. But if it were out right this second I'd be playing it Krakhor, much like I'll be doing throughout the next couple of weeks.
Oh and how does playing MW2 make one a stupid kid exactly?
Oh and how does playing MW2 make one a stupid kid exactly?
kwikkE Nov 8, 2009 at 8:51 am
+4 votes
CONSOLE FPS
DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDHurfdurf Nov 8, 2009 at 7:00 pm
+1 votes
Buncha WoW nerds complaining about MMO aspects not being in an WRPG, lol.
F8L Fool Nov 8, 2009 at 7:07 pm
+1 votes
Hurfdurf said
Buncha WoW nerds complaining about MMO aspects not being in an WRPG, lol.
WoW nerd citing what he clearly believes to be an exclusive MMO (WoW) feature.
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