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 by Duncan, Level 20
Last updated at April 21, 2009, 9:25 am
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I still don't get it why people ( and blizz ) are trying so hard to make WoW an e-sport or treating it like one. The seriousness and drama involved in the latest arena/pvp blogs makes me think that people may choose the wrong game for them. Though I really need to give props to Blizzard for amazing marketing/social engineering skills cause making so many people think that they actually doing anything competitive deserves at least a /clap...
It amazes me that people can't grasp that WoW at this stage can't be balanced, it's mathematically impossible, no matter how much feedback or whine posts you will produce you will always end up in situation with only very few specs that are in any way viable.
Long time ago I was also charmed by the vision of arenas cause I really need to admit that the whole concept looks god damn good on paper. I mean what's not to like - getting friends together to create imba-specnaz-like team, adrenaline rush while fighting actual living opponent (not some poorly scripted AI), ladder/rank system, rewards you can brag about and most importantly - ripping the other team apart. So much win in one concept it's almost unreal.. well it is unreal cause in reality, arenas are a "Poo eating contests".
Blizzard keeps shovelling that **** called arena down people's throat and you all are swallowing it while smiling and asking for seconds like a homeless ***** in cheap porn flick. Wake the **** up! WoW will never be anywhere near to competitive gaming/e-sport/whatever since it's impossible to balance it. It's really time to stop taking this game seriously, it's perfect for casual-kill-some-time moment cause even pve is dumbed down to the point where you can pug every single encounter, but trying to take it to e-sport level is pointless. No matter how good you are at arenas, no matter how high is your rating on your another FOTM char in reality you are just full of dog's **** that blizz fed you.
If you want some real e-sport check out other games where YOU are the one who actually determines who will win, NOT the class, NOT the patch number, NOT the addons and definitely NOT a lucky crit. If you are playing WoW just for arenas, do yourself a favour and stop, it's really sad to see so many people here with very high potential for competitive gaming wasting their time on this piece of ****. Go ******* evolve, drop the shackles or something...
(Yes, I've quit WoW just after Wotlk, never felt better..)
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43 comments
daays Apr 21, 2009 at 9:45 am
+6 votes
WoW isn't an eSport
It sucks
Arena sucks
I quit
You should too
good blog bro
jk
It sucks
Arena sucks
I quit
You should too
good blog bro
jk
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Baii Apr 21, 2009 at 9:46 am
+1 votes
Arena ruined WoW lulz thats why i quitz when TBC came out
SIKE LOL but yeah arena ruined it
SIKE LOL but yeah arena ruined it
Kaex Apr 21, 2009 at 9:59 am
+3 votes
I find it funny that Dota is relatively balanced, yet has many heroes, items, and is free.
Duncan Apr 21, 2009 at 10:09 am
+1 votes
I don't find it funny at all, it's exactly what it supposed to be since it was designed with very specific mindset that's why it didn't fail. WoW was originally designed to kill a bear, kill a bear, kill a bear..
Kaex Apr 21, 2009 at 10:11 am
+1 votes
Regardless Blizzard makes billions a year and can not accomplish what a few people did in their free time?
Marvel Apr 21, 2009 at 11:16 am
+5 votes
Kaex said
Regardless Blizzard makes billions a year and can not accomplish what a few people did in their free time?
When the WoW devs sit down and discuss balance, they can't and don't look at it from just a hardcore arena player's perspective. They have to consider questing/leveling, raiding, and PvP all together. And it's not just about making everyone happy with perfect balance, it's about fun, which a lot of these rng abilities provide to players that don't even know what rng means.
The people working at Blizzard aren't exactly stupid. If WoW was just an arena/pvp game (which I and many others who visit this site wish) it would be vastly different.
Smokeee Apr 21, 2009 at 11:46 am
+0 votes
If you're going to pretend to put WoW's Arena play into E-Sports $100k+ prize money competition, i'd hope they are putting a lot of attention towards its balance more than other aspects of their game where they don't pony up any money at all. They've got these players taking Arena seriously between how the game features it, the money they put up, and the ingame prestige with all of its rewards for being successful in it. And then to pretend its only a small part of balance is pretty stupid. They created this beast, that a lot of people here bought into, some sacrificing other pursuits in RL to be good at. They are responsible for it.
I'm not saying i agree with what they did featuring Arena in WoW to the degree it is, and then taking out Warcraft 3 from E-Sports tourneys for WoW with all of its issues. But now that the grave is dug its not like they can really pretend to go back on it like they seem to want to with statements like "we don't like the microscope Arena puts on balance, therefore we're trying to move away from it". Its just a lame copout at this point.
I'm not saying i agree with what they did featuring Arena in WoW to the degree it is, and then taking out Warcraft 3 from E-Sports tourneys for WoW with all of its issues. But now that the grave is dug its not like they can really pretend to go back on it like they seem to want to with statements like "we don't like the microscope Arena puts on balance, therefore we're trying to move away from it". Its just a lame copout at this point.
RedKiwi Apr 21, 2009 at 11:16 am
+1 votes
The prime aspect of balance in dota is the fact that you got bans and can do 1/2/2/2/2/1 picks. In wow you can't choose a class at a time and counter your opponents choice, you just enter with what class/spec you got and hope the other team isn't a direct counter.
RedKiwi Apr 21, 2009 at 10:03 am
+1 votes
I think wow pvp was most balance at 60 with people on new servers just sporting blues from pvp/5mans and fighting to get ranks. After AQ and stuff the gear just got too good. It's like a game of dota, it's most fun early-mid when people are still just ganking/roaming etc with just a few bracers trying to get the edge, trying to seize map control and then it kinda goes to hell late game when you got some godlike carry with 3-4 T4 items and BKB but still has potential due to team fights.
Protoss Apr 21, 2009 at 10:26 am
+1 votes
RedKiwi said
I think wow pvp was most balance at 60 with people on new servers just sporting blues from pvp/5mans and fighting to get ranks. After AQ and stuff the gear just got too good. It's like a game of dota, it's most fun early-mid when people are still just ganking/roaming etc with just a few bracers trying to get the edge, trying to seize map control and then it kinda goes to hell late game when you got some godlike carry with 3-4 T4 items and BKB but still has potential due to team fights.
Vir Apr 21, 2009 at 10:49 am
+1 votes
it's really sad to see so many people here with very high potential for
competitive gaming wasting their time on this piece of ****.
Most of them have no potential at other games, which is why they play World of RNGCraft.
competitive gaming wasting their time on this piece of ****.
Most of them have no potential at other games, which is why they play World of RNGCraft.
Duncan Apr 21, 2009 at 11:08 am
+0 votes
What can I say.. was trying to be optimistic ;] . Call me a hopeless believer/dreamer, but I do think that at least few of them would actually get somewhere in other games if they would stop rolling their faces through keyboard while getting higher ratings. And who knows, maybe they would be more happy?
But again, blizz is really good at making people believe they are progressing or achieving something..
But again, blizz is really good at making people believe they are progressing or achieving something..
Duncan Apr 21, 2009 at 11:13 am
+0 votes
Like I said at the very beginning of my blog.. I usually don't :P, but when you see someone doing something really stupid and painful to themselves over and over, you sometimes stop them and ask: why? Just out of human curiosity and compansion :P.
Smokeee Apr 21, 2009 at 11:31 am
+0 votes
Arena is fine for people that enjoy it, but its a niche player base. The problem is you're right Blizzard jams it down everyone's throats and seem to give it so much special attention, and force anyone that wants to be competitive to others in PvP to participate in it. They will pretend like you don't have to participate if you don't want to, but if you don't you're going to get massively outgeared, where raiding is your only other alternative to be competitive to these players which is more trouble than its worth.
Its just not everyone who prefers MMORPG style game plays cup of PvP tea. Not even most. Blizzards developers are very stubborn to their own tastes, and i swear focus on what they themselves prefer in their own game play, rather than their audience or the lore WoW was built upon. Its almost sad that WoW's PvP is completely based around Arena when the whole premise of their game is based around massive horde vs ally battles, and how they pitch it.
Oh well, its been this way ever since TBC. Arena has taken center stage in this game's PvP to a fault, and there is very little sandbox to it anymore, if at all. Thats why vanilla WoW is looked back on so fondly, while the Developers completely cater to a very niche portion of their player base with E-sport WoW. I don't even think 3/4's of the player base cares about E sports in WoW, although the drama is funny to read, and the hoops the Developers jump through to keep it from being a total joke. Only if they cared that much about other aspects of the game that are extremely lacking
Its just not everyone who prefers MMORPG style game plays cup of PvP tea. Not even most. Blizzards developers are very stubborn to their own tastes, and i swear focus on what they themselves prefer in their own game play, rather than their audience or the lore WoW was built upon. Its almost sad that WoW's PvP is completely based around Arena when the whole premise of their game is based around massive horde vs ally battles, and how they pitch it.
Oh well, its been this way ever since TBC. Arena has taken center stage in this game's PvP to a fault, and there is very little sandbox to it anymore, if at all. Thats why vanilla WoW is looked back on so fondly, while the Developers completely cater to a very niche portion of their player base with E-sport WoW. I don't even think 3/4's of the player base cares about E sports in WoW, although the drama is funny to read, and the hoops the Developers jump through to keep it from being a total joke. Only if they cared that much about other aspects of the game that are extremely lacking
Qils Apr 21, 2009 at 11:36 am
+1 votes
I lo'd about the "so much special attention" to arena. Arena is an after thought for blizzard.
Smokeee Apr 21, 2009 at 11:48 am
+0 votes
The ONLY thing Arena balance takes a back seat to is Raiding, and thats arguable. Only here would you find anyone to pretend to even say Arena isn't a special focus for these Developers.
Qils Apr 21, 2009 at 5:51 pm
+1 votes
I stand corrected. Blizz finally came through and delivered great weapons for pvp.
Marvel Apr 21, 2009 at 11:35 am
+0 votes
In response to this blog, I don't think Blizzard or anyone else is forcing WoW on us as an e-sport. It simply evolved as one because of the games popularity. They added arena with the first expansion mostly from player demand and it caught on and became a huge success, so the next logical step was tournament play.
Quite frankly, there is really nothing else out there to play competitively that has even half the community size as WoW right now. Unless you are a console gamer, still playing Counter-Strike (a lot of current WoW players I know are ex-CS players) or are trying to make it was as a foreigner playing StarCraft (good luck with that) there really isn't any game out there worth playing competitively at the moment.
Lastly, you should have probably worded your last paragraph a little differently, because I and pretty much everyone else I play with only play WoW for arenas. It would have been better to say if you are playing WoW just with the goal of going pro and getting a sponsor to play at LAN events, you should probably stop. But playing arena competitively with friends is still fun without a doubt, you just can't always take it so serious.
Quite frankly, there is really nothing else out there to play competitively that has even half the community size as WoW right now. Unless you are a console gamer, still playing Counter-Strike (a lot of current WoW players I know are ex-CS players) or are trying to make it was as a foreigner playing StarCraft (good luck with that) there really isn't any game out there worth playing competitively at the moment.
Lastly, you should have probably worded your last paragraph a little differently, because I and pretty much everyone else I play with only play WoW for arenas. It would have been better to say if you are playing WoW just with the goal of going pro and getting a sponsor to play at LAN events, you should probably stop. But playing arena competitively with friends is still fun without a doubt, you just can't always take it so serious.
Smokeee Apr 21, 2009 at 11:53 am
-1 votes
Nobody asked for Arena. WTF are you talking about? Nobody even knew what Arena was, or had the slightest thought about them expanding on the dueling outside of IF/Org in those days. People just assumed they would expand on either BG's or world PvP of some sort since thats what PvP was in early WoW. It was way more in-server sandbox'sh where you would find pockets of players here and there in the world up to mischief like PK'ing along some road or in front of Gadgetzan, or the massive PvP that would occur at Tarren Mill.
The Dev's came up with Arena purely by themselves, but it fit their E-Sports model for their games more than standard MMORPG play could. Now they've pigeon-holed all of the PvP in their game into Arena based game play as its evolved, and its not like they can really go back on it considering the joke it would become of they paid less balance attention to it at this point.
The Dev's came up with Arena purely by themselves, but it fit their E-Sports model for their games more than standard MMORPG play could. Now they've pigeon-holed all of the PvP in their game into Arena based game play as its evolved, and its not like they can really go back on it considering the joke it would become of they paid less balance attention to it at this point.
sisyphean Apr 21, 2009 at 12:24 pm
+1 votes
I remember a sizeable clamor on the forums for a rated 5v5 system, to formalize the roaming 5v5 that guilds used to organize on the big PvP servers. Many PvP MMOs developed roaming small group PvP communities, as it's generally the most like chess, as they'd say on AJ. I'm thinking specificially of DaoC, early WoW, and WAR here - I'm not knowledgable about any other games and whether they developed a small group scene, but I assume it isn't that uncommon.
The idea was always to have something akin to dueling for groups, as opposed to the zergfest that larger scale fighting tends to become (yes yes, everyone wants rated WSG, including me, but I think really tactical, competitive Guild vs Guild WSGs would be more rare than say, a competitive 3v3 match). In this sense Arena is exactly what people asked for, with the addition of pillar humping and stupid gimmicky crap no one wants like fire and tornados and waterfalls.
The idea was always to have something akin to dueling for groups, as opposed to the zergfest that larger scale fighting tends to become (yes yes, everyone wants rated WSG, including me, but I think really tactical, competitive Guild vs Guild WSGs would be more rare than say, a competitive 3v3 match). In this sense Arena is exactly what people asked for, with the addition of pillar humping and stupid gimmicky crap no one wants like fire and tornados and waterfalls.
Smokeee Apr 21, 2009 at 12:50 pm
+0 votes
I would love to have seen this request since i read the forums pretty often back then. Nobody even knew what rated anything was back then. We were all still playing WoW just assuming it was like every other MMORPG and evolve in the same ways.
I'm not denying Arena has its place btw, more that i never saw anywhere close to a outcry for Arena ratings based game play, because nobody knew any better than what we had.
I'm not denying Arena has its place btw, more that i never saw anywhere close to a outcry for Arena ratings based game play, because nobody knew any better than what we had.
DrHuxtable Apr 21, 2009 at 1:02 pm
+1 votes
Yet by most accounts 5v5 is dead, and has been for a long time. Most people want their spec to be 2v2 dps/healer viable, where it becomes a game of outlasting your mistakes and trying again. I love the passion that people have for arena, yet when us folks say the same about World PVP/BG's they are nothing but a "zerg fest."
Our server has seen a tremendous amount of world PVP spring up around the Hodir dailies. Two Gladiators from my guild, myself and another decided to make the place a living hell for alliance. It was only a matter of time before we faced a 9v4 situation. We rezzed up, buffed up, and went after them. It was a long fight, we won, and there is something damn rewarding about over coming the odds in that situation.
When you put that situation in a box, there is no way we could of won. There really needs to be more respect for all aspects of the game from all players. There are plenty of niche roles in this game that individuals excel at, but the rewards are not there to give proof to their skill. Back in BC we went through about 5-6 2k+ rated rogues that couldn't kick ROS if they were guaranteed a ******* from Angelina Jolie. On the same hand we had a Glaived rogue that couldn't break 1900.
Our server has seen a tremendous amount of world PVP spring up around the Hodir dailies. Two Gladiators from my guild, myself and another decided to make the place a living hell for alliance. It was only a matter of time before we faced a 9v4 situation. We rezzed up, buffed up, and went after them. It was a long fight, we won, and there is something damn rewarding about over coming the odds in that situation.
When you put that situation in a box, there is no way we could of won. There really needs to be more respect for all aspects of the game from all players. There are plenty of niche roles in this game that individuals excel at, but the rewards are not there to give proof to their skill. Back in BC we went through about 5-6 2k+ rated rogues that couldn't kick ROS if they were guaranteed a ******* from Angelina Jolie. On the same hand we had a Glaived rogue that couldn't break 1900.
sisyphean Apr 21, 2009 at 4:38 pm
+1 votes
Smokee:
I dunno, I may be imagining it. There were matchmaking systems in things like War3, which I'm thinking is the context in which people talked about 'rated dueling'. It was by no means a huge outcry, but I remember (or think so?) there was solid support for 'group dueling' as I put it.
DrHuxtable:
Totally on the same page as you there. I wish all brackets of Arena were more viable, but it's simply so much easier to do 2s for reasons of both skill and logistics. I do also love World PvP, however, and there isn't really anything in Arena that takes the kind of imagination and out-of-the-box strategic thinking that World PvP does when it goes right - using terrain, mobs, etc. to even the odds.
As you say, there should be broader support for all aspects of the game. I think putting the new Tournament dailies in a setting where everyone is on fscking horses is dumb as ****, for example - IQD was perfect in how it brought everyone together in one bottleneck where fighting was bound to happen. There should also be a push for rated WSG and maybe AB/EotS, instead of another AV style cluster**** BG. I dunno, maybe some people want that, but I can't understand why...
I dunno, I may be imagining it. There were matchmaking systems in things like War3, which I'm thinking is the context in which people talked about 'rated dueling'. It was by no means a huge outcry, but I remember (or think so?) there was solid support for 'group dueling' as I put it.
DrHuxtable:
Totally on the same page as you there. I wish all brackets of Arena were more viable, but it's simply so much easier to do 2s for reasons of both skill and logistics. I do also love World PvP, however, and there isn't really anything in Arena that takes the kind of imagination and out-of-the-box strategic thinking that World PvP does when it goes right - using terrain, mobs, etc. to even the odds.
As you say, there should be broader support for all aspects of the game. I think putting the new Tournament dailies in a setting where everyone is on fscking horses is dumb as ****, for example - IQD was perfect in how it brought everyone together in one bottleneck where fighting was bound to happen. There should also be a push for rated WSG and maybe AB/EotS, instead of another AV style cluster**** BG. I dunno, maybe some people want that, but I can't understand why...
affix Apr 21, 2009 at 12:24 pm
+1 votes
The thing about WoW and arenas is that the people who spend all their time crying about the game on AJ/Gameriot are typically ******* AWFUL at this game. Arenas are actually really fun right now, there's a wide variety of viable comps and games can last a long time without feeling drawn out.
Don't use AJ/Gameriot as your measure of how happy people are, because no matter how balanced or imbalanced the game is, the failures will always be making these know-it-all blogs about how the game sucks and how you should quit and how nobody is happy. People are having fun, people from all 10 classes. Stop crying about it and actually PLAY the game, and don't be a tool and actually fall for people's bull**** when they say the game sucks every single day. It is easier to blame the game for your own shortcomings than it is to own up to them.
Don't use AJ/Gameriot as your measure of how happy people are, because no matter how balanced or imbalanced the game is, the failures will always be making these know-it-all blogs about how the game sucks and how you should quit and how nobody is happy. People are having fun, people from all 10 classes. Stop crying about it and actually PLAY the game, and don't be a tool and actually fall for people's bull**** when they say the game sucks every single day. It is easier to blame the game for your own shortcomings than it is to own up to them.
Smokeee Apr 21, 2009 at 12:47 pm
-2 votes
Gameriot probably has a collection of the better players in this game. Even then don't pretend its some huge accomplishment to be good at Arena or even Raiding. Some of you take this game way more seriously than the masses, so of course you will be way better than most when you have all of the mods, set partners you go everywhere with, and actually practice WoW like its more than just a game to some of you. Your average MMORPG gamer isn't going to take it nearly that serious.
Even the WoW forums have more complaints than praise. I'm not saying WoW is a bad game, but more that it has a lot more issues than some of you fanboys want to pretend. Ever since you got GC's contact you've been pretending to defend them with everything. You really think all 10 classes are happy? You don't think class balance and fotm has a lot to do with success? You think people ***** about that stuff for no reason? Even then they cater to what you seem to enjoy, so you speak from a perspective that is pretty spoiled by the current Dev's.
Fact is WoW lacks considerably for a sandbox MMORPG on the PvP side. Their balancing is bad, and has always been bad creating constant fotm's. The constant excuse of juggling balance between PvE and PvP, while pretending to feature WoW's PvP as a professional E Sport is also a major issue. If you don't think people are complaining about legit issues, then i'm afraid you've sold your opinion out to the Developers as soon as they started asking for your opinion.
Even the WoW forums have more complaints than praise. I'm not saying WoW is a bad game, but more that it has a lot more issues than some of you fanboys want to pretend. Ever since you got GC's contact you've been pretending to defend them with everything. You really think all 10 classes are happy? You don't think class balance and fotm has a lot to do with success? You think people ***** about that stuff for no reason? Even then they cater to what you seem to enjoy, so you speak from a perspective that is pretty spoiled by the current Dev's.
Fact is WoW lacks considerably for a sandbox MMORPG on the PvP side. Their balancing is bad, and has always been bad creating constant fotm's. The constant excuse of juggling balance between PvE and PvP, while pretending to feature WoW's PvP as a professional E Sport is also a major issue. If you don't think people are complaining about legit issues, then i'm afraid you've sold your opinion out to the Developers as soon as they started asking for your opinion.
affix Apr 21, 2009 at 12:51 pm
+1 votes
95% of the **** people complain about is not a problem with a game, but a problem with the person complaining. Every class is top-10 viable right now, there's more comp variety than there has EVER been before, and most classes have multiple viable specs. You can ***** and moan all you want, but right now, the game is more varied than it has ever been since S1. When there's 10+ FOTM comps, and a few of them have been viable for over a year, you can stop calling them FOTM... they're just good comps.
I can't believe you'd say 'even the WoW forums have more complaints than praise'. Who the **** goes to the official forums to praise stuff? You go there to troll, to complain, or to get banned, there's very few GOOD reasons to go to the WoW forums. Same thing with Gameriot... this is where you go to talk **** to people without actually having to be good at WoW.
I don't think it has ever been the case that a good player of ANY class has a solid shot at qualifying for a tournament. Right now, that is the case: Doesn't matter what class you play, you can compete at the very highest level if you form a solid comp with good players. That's a pretty huge turnaround from previous seasons.
I can't believe you'd say 'even the WoW forums have more complaints than praise'. Who the **** goes to the official forums to praise stuff? You go there to troll, to complain, or to get banned, there's very few GOOD reasons to go to the WoW forums. Same thing with Gameriot... this is where you go to talk **** to people without actually having to be good at WoW.
I don't think it has ever been the case that a good player of ANY class has a solid shot at qualifying for a tournament. Right now, that is the case: Doesn't matter what class you play, you can compete at the very highest level if you form a solid comp with good players. That's a pretty huge turnaround from previous seasons.
Smokeee Apr 21, 2009 at 1:02 pm
-1 votes
I don't think you realize how much of a niche of this game is based on Arena, and how competitive motivation is not the same to a lot of players who play these games. Not everyones goal who plays WoW is to be top 10. Many players who enjoy PvP just want to be competitive to the players they come across in whatever setting. The ratings system if anything creates larger gear/skill disparities. You just look at yourself and assume everyone thinks like you, and then go on pretending like everything is fine in your world therefore nobody has a basis for QQ. I mean when these Developers tune the game based on you and your opinion, i guess i can't blame you for having that fanboy mentality towards them.
There is a LOT left to be desired with these Developers no matter how picture perfect you want to pretend they and WoW are. Every season there have been imbalances and fotm's WAY more than you are trying to portray now. WoW's game design is based completely around the venue you enjoy, that many others don't prefer. When you're already rich, and catered to, of course you are going to protect the status quo, but you can't fool people into thinking Arena is close to equal opportunity every season or this game doesn't have issues worth complaining about. Like i said you sold yourself out to blue ever since GC got your ear
There is a LOT left to be desired with these Developers no matter how picture perfect you want to pretend they and WoW are. Every season there have been imbalances and fotm's WAY more than you are trying to portray now. WoW's game design is based completely around the venue you enjoy, that many others don't prefer. When you're already rich, and catered to, of course you are going to protect the status quo, but you can't fool people into thinking Arena is close to equal opportunity every season or this game doesn't have issues worth complaining about. Like i said you sold yourself out to blue ever since GC got your ear
DrHuxtable Apr 21, 2009 at 1:17 pm
+1 votes
Arena is not everything. When people with sub 1500 ratings that have played 20 games ***** about Ret paladins, I guarantee it's not because of what they saw in the arena. You continually make arguments that Arena is all that matters, yet with 65% less participation it's obvious that people are *****ing because of how arena balance is spilling over into content they like to play.
affix Apr 21, 2009 at 1:29 pm
+1 votes
DrHuxtable said
Arena is not everything. When people with sub 1500 ratings that have played 20 games ***** about Ret paladins, I guarantee it's not because of what they saw in the arena. You continually make arguments that Arena is all that matters, yet with 65% less participation it's obvious that people are *****ing because of how arena balance is spilling over into content they like to play.
DrHuxtable Apr 21, 2009 at 5:19 pm
+1 votes
"95% of the **** people complain about is not a problem with a game, but a problem with the person complaining." -Affix
What an incredible joke to say that you are "arguing within the context of arenas," when your are using ample evidence of forum opinions based upon PVP in general to supplement your argument. See above, see below, don't be so ******* daft.
"The thing about WoW and arenas is that the people who spend all their time crying about the game on AJ/Gameriot are typically ******* AWFUL at this game." -Affix
What an incredible joke to say that you are "arguing within the context of arenas," when your are using ample evidence of forum opinions based upon PVP in general to supplement your argument. See above, see below, don't be so ******* daft.
"The thing about WoW and arenas is that the people who spend all their time crying about the game on AJ/Gameriot are typically ******* AWFUL at this game." -Affix
affix Apr 21, 2009 at 6:30 pm
+1 votes
DrHuxtable said
"95% of the **** people complain about is not a problem with a game, but a problem with the person complaining." -Affix
What an incredible joke to say that you are "arguing within the context of arenas," when your are using ample evidence of forum opinions based upon PVP in general to supplement your argument. See above, see below, don't be so ******* daft.
"The thing about WoW and arenas is that the people who spend all their time crying about the game on AJ/Gameriot are typically ******* AWFUL at this game." -Affix
What an incredible joke to say that you are "arguing within the context of arenas," when your are using ample evidence of forum opinions based upon PVP in general to supplement your argument. See above, see below, don't be so ******* daft.
"The thing about WoW and arenas is that the people who spend all their time crying about the game on AJ/Gameriot are typically ******* AWFUL at this game." -Affix
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