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by Ifrit, Level 18
Last updated at October 27, 2009, 7:24 am
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This wouldn't be half as bad if Mutilate/Prep wouldn't force us to spam cooldowns as if there's no tomorrow so our opponents die and we won't feel like our friend here:
Whatever..Subtlety. It is 'the' Rogue tree. It's about beeing fast, mobile, stabbing your opponents' back and vanishing (literally) before they even recognize what hit 'em. Currently it is only about twoshotting 13k health Mages wearing greens in random BGs while beeing massively overgeared and running after anyone else who has a poison dispel or Hand of Freedom available.
The spec needs three things changed of which the first one would probably be enough for me to get back to hemorrhaging the **** out of my enemies:
Talent Review/Switch:
Deadly Brew. This HAS to be available for other Rogue specs if they're supposed to work on an above average level of play. Either make it tier 1/2/3 in one of the trees or switch it with Cheat Death/Enveloping Shadows. DB has become so mandatory that any spec without it just feels "incomplete".
One would think that there's more to it and I could advise to also switch Quick Recovery <-> Heightened Senses and/or Fleet Footed but in the end it's only Deadly Brew that has enough impact to change things.
Hemorrhage:
Ghostly glyph just doesn't cut it. This spec needs more damage to really work. Period.
Either the Hemo damage is buffed (back to 125%) or the ability itself needs a change. May be it needs talents to increase its critical strike chance or even the glyph could include that OR it should ignore armor completely while glyphed.
Whatever it is, this style needs help to be seen in competetive play again.
Shadow Dance:
One of the most lacking 51pt talents in the game right now. The solution is simple: Revert the last two changes made to it. That leads to Sdance, making the Rogue almost non-targetable again since he's vanishing multiple times Hattori Hanzō style.
Most non-Rogues have probably stopped reading already, preparing to swear and curse ruthlessly in the comment section. But there's a reason to all this:
Rogue is currently one of the least exciting as well as one of the most boring classes in the game. You just throw all your cooldowns at your enemy and if he didn't drop, you most likely will. That's about it. The little finesse left is easily overshadowed by high four digit Mutilates and Eviscerates with lots of stuns inbetween.
If all three suggestions would make it live it would be too much for sure. But two out of three or even one of them could ensure that there are less 'bad' Rogues on high ratings while at the same time making the class and arena play overall more diverse and complex.
After reading through that pile of biased **** you might need a little excitation so I'll enclose a recpie for my favourite dessert:
Tiramisu (© by Michael Chu)
First, start by assembling the ingredients. We'll need one pound of mascarpone cheese, a cup of heavy whipping cream, 1/2 cup granulated sugar, 3 tablespoons rum (brandy also works well), ~20 lady's fingers (a light, oblong italian cookie with powdered sugar on one side), cocoa powder, a double shot (about 2 to 3 ounces) of espresso, 1/2 cup of prepared coffee, and shavings of unsweetened dark chocolate to top (1 oz. should do).

Chill whipping cream and bowl. Mix coffee and espresso and chill.
Whisk the whipping cream until it reaches stiff peaks. This can be accomplished in a few minutes with an electric mixer or by hand (times will vary depending on arm strength and stamina).

Put the cheese, sugar, and brandy into a medium bowl and mix until smooth. Add more sugar or alcohol as desired.

Fold in the whipped cream to create the cheese mixture.

Soak lady fingers in espresso for a couple seconds, rotating to coat all sides. Place lady fingers side by side on bottom of a 8x8-in. pan.
Put half the cheese mixture on lady fingers in pan. Smooth with a spatula or spoon.

Sift cocoa powder liberally on surface of layer.

Apply second layer of lady fingers and remaining cheese.

Sift cocoa powder and half of chocolate shavings.

Cover in plastic wrap and chill.
To serve, use the remaining chocolate shavings by sprinkling a bit onto eight plates. Cut tiramisu into eight rectangles and serve on plates (or simply spoon them out).


Put half the cheese mixture on lady fingers in pan. Smooth with a spatula or spoon.

Sift cocoa powder liberally on surface of layer.

Apply second layer of lady fingers and remaining cheese.

Sift cocoa powder and half of chocolate shavings.

Cover in plastic wrap and chill.
To serve, use the remaining chocolate shavings by sprinkling a bit onto eight plates. Cut tiramisu into eight rectangles and serve on plates (or simply spoon them out).

Warning!
This'll knock you out. Srsly.

10 comments
Sabella Oct 27, 2009 at 9:57 am
+1 votes
how about some vanilla, just a little? didn't cook it yet, though
Nachmanundesu Oct 27, 2009 at 10:49 am
+2 votes
Buff ambush and/or make it scale better, buff hemo and make ambush usable with fists with a lesser weapon damage percentage, a bit like how FoK currently works.
Also, I'd love to see talents in the subtetly tree that improves shadowstep.
I did however react a bit on something you wrote; "DB has become so mandatory that any spec without it just feels "incomplete".". This could be quite bothersome. I'm not a very huge fan of being kited personally, but to claim DB and Shadowstep in the same spec would dumben the spec down quite a bit and I'm actually afraid that DB is one of the things that is steadily ruining rogue gameplay, compared to what it once was.
I have recently put shiv back on my bars again after cookiecuttering **** up as MP spec, but if it wasn't for that I'd never use shiv since as long as I'm in melee, my opponent is autoslowed anyway. Ofcourse, the vicious circle for this is that if we didn't have autoslowing in our targets, every single class would kite us because we lost our only gap closer as a viable option.
But yeah, the most fun would be for ambush to be usable with fist weapons (or all weapons, but I do find that it'd be a bit more OLOLRP for it to only be fists), hemo and BS damage and/or mechanics buffed/changed into something useful and ambush also buffed. The damage of ambush currently is underwhelming to say the least, I've had several <1k crits on targets with -stun damage talents or abilities. Hell, the only thing I actually proper damage with ambush these days are probably other rogues...
So... I can't really remember my point, but I just wanted to sign here and tell you that many (most) rogues agree with you and actually find mutilate faceroll as one of the least fun things since... Well, forever (how many classes play without their 51pt talents anyway?)...
Also, remove stealth enchants/talents/racials already, jesus.
Also, I'd love to see talents in the subtetly tree that improves shadowstep.
I did however react a bit on something you wrote; "DB has become so mandatory that any spec without it just feels "incomplete".". This could be quite bothersome. I'm not a very huge fan of being kited personally, but to claim DB and Shadowstep in the same spec would dumben the spec down quite a bit and I'm actually afraid that DB is one of the things that is steadily ruining rogue gameplay, compared to what it once was.
I have recently put shiv back on my bars again after cookiecuttering **** up as MP spec, but if it wasn't for that I'd never use shiv since as long as I'm in melee, my opponent is autoslowed anyway. Ofcourse, the vicious circle for this is that if we didn't have autoslowing in our targets, every single class would kite us because we lost our only gap closer as a viable option.
But yeah, the most fun would be for ambush to be usable with fist weapons (or all weapons, but I do find that it'd be a bit more OLOLRP for it to only be fists), hemo and BS damage and/or mechanics buffed/changed into something useful and ambush also buffed. The damage of ambush currently is underwhelming to say the least, I've had several <1k crits on targets with -stun damage talents or abilities. Hell, the only thing I actually proper damage with ambush these days are probably other rogues...
So... I can't really remember my point, but I just wanted to sign here and tell you that many (most) rogues agree with you and actually find mutilate faceroll as one of the least fun things since... Well, forever (how many classes play without their 51pt talents anyway?)...
Also, remove stealth enchants/talents/racials already, jesus.
Ifrit Oct 27, 2009 at 12:33 pm
+1 votes
Nachmanundesu said
Buff ambush and/or make it scale better, buff hemo and make ambush usable with fists with a lesser weapon damage percentage, a bit like how FoK currently works.
Also, I'd love to see talents in the subtetly tree that improves shadowstep.
I did however react a bit on something you wrote; "DB has become so mandatory that any spec without it just feels "incomplete".". This could be quite bothersome. I'm not a very huge fan of being kited personally, but to claim DB and Shadowstep in the same spec would dumben the spec down quite a bit and I'm actually afraid that DB is one of the things that is steadily ruining rogue gameplay, compared to what it once was.
I have recently put shiv back on my bars again after cookiecuttering **** up as MP spec, but if it wasn't for that I'd never use shiv since as long as I'm in melee, my opponent is autoslowed anyway. Ofcourse, the vicious circle for this is that if we didn't have autoslowing in our targets, every single class would kite us because we lost our only gap closer as a viable option.
But yeah, the most fun would be for ambush to be usable with fist weapons (or all weapons, but I do find that it'd be a bit more OLOLRP for it to only be fists), hemo and BS damage and/or mechanics buffed/changed into something useful and ambush also buffed. The damage of ambush currently is underwhelming to say the least, I've had several <1k crits on targets with -stun damage talents or abilities. Hell, the only thing I actually proper damage with ambush these days are probably other rogues...
So... I can't really remember my point, but I just wanted to sign here and tell you that many (most) rogues agree with you and actually find mutilate faceroll as one of the least fun things since... Well, forever (how many classes play without their 51pt talents anyway?)...
Also, remove stealth enchants/talents/racials already, jesus.
Also, I'd love to see talents in the subtetly tree that improves shadowstep.
I did however react a bit on something you wrote; "DB has become so mandatory that any spec without it just feels "incomplete".". This could be quite bothersome. I'm not a very huge fan of being kited personally, but to claim DB and Shadowstep in the same spec would dumben the spec down quite a bit and I'm actually afraid that DB is one of the things that is steadily ruining rogue gameplay, compared to what it once was.
I have recently put shiv back on my bars again after cookiecuttering **** up as MP spec, but if it wasn't for that I'd never use shiv since as long as I'm in melee, my opponent is autoslowed anyway. Ofcourse, the vicious circle for this is that if we didn't have autoslowing in our targets, every single class would kite us because we lost our only gap closer as a viable option.
But yeah, the most fun would be for ambush to be usable with fist weapons (or all weapons, but I do find that it'd be a bit more OLOLRP for it to only be fists), hemo and BS damage and/or mechanics buffed/changed into something useful and ambush also buffed. The damage of ambush currently is underwhelming to say the least, I've had several <1k crits on targets with -stun damage talents or abilities. Hell, the only thing I actually proper damage with ambush these days are probably other rogues...
So... I can't really remember my point, but I just wanted to sign here and tell you that many (most) rogues agree with you and actually find mutilate faceroll as one of the least fun things since... Well, forever (how many classes play without their 51pt talents anyway?)...
Also, remove stealth enchants/talents/racials already, jesus.
Classes? None.
Specs? Restodruid, Protholy to mention the specs which are actually used. Don't care that much about smiting Priests or Arcane/Fire Mages w/out Living Bomb since it's unlikely to encounter them anywhere above 2k in Arenas let alone 2.5k+.
Overall decent entry. I can just aggree.
nerf Oct 27, 2009 at 12:58 pm
+1 votes
if every spec needs deadly brew it'd just be easier to change poisons themselves and remove db. problem solved. then again, remember that at least once upon a time assassination was about poisons, and the other trees weren't.
i'm thinking that the reason shadow dance was changed from being quad vanish was because you could do some really quirky stuff with it (hit sd -> mount, for instance. gz, you are now stealthed and mounted.) and it just wasn't very elegantly implemented. if you wanna be hard to hit while dancing, which admittedly would make sense, it'd be easier to give it a clos-like effect.
i'm thinking that the reason shadow dance was changed from being quad vanish was because you could do some really quirky stuff with it (hit sd -> mount, for instance. gz, you are now stealthed and mounted.) and it just wasn't very elegantly implemented. if you wanna be hard to hit while dancing, which admittedly would make sense, it'd be easier to give it a clos-like effect.
Publicity Stunt Oct 27, 2009 at 5:16 pm
+1 votes
Allow nothing to be in your life that you cannot walk out on in thirty seconds flat if you spot the heat around the corner
Publicity Stunt Oct 27, 2009 at 5:18 pm
+2 votes
they should bring back shadowdance with the vanishes, except give it 3 vanish charges that are manually executed during the shadowdance buff, which lasts 8-10 seconds.
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