Will of the Forsaken Nerf on PTRs

last

 

you're doing it wrong

 

 

Good change. Rogues like reckful and neilyo were carried by WoTF.

 

ROFL

 

its still the best racial vs lock/priest teams. Overall racials are finally balanced imo.

 

You're retarded.

 

Having been a UD rogue, I'm definitely annoyed at this change although I'm sure I'm biased. If they nerfed WoTF, they should have done it another way.

Also, anyone else see locks being a lot better now?

 

eh, it will be alright. it will be harder to zerg down a healer as RMP against lock teams now.

 

Arena is gay.

 

wotf nerf is a bunch of bullsh*t

 

definatly pre blogged that ****

 

but because Undeads really lack any other exciting or (really) useful racial concerning competetive play.

Really?  Because try telling your plight to every other race in the game.  Other than Humans and Orcs, everybody's racials are pretty **** overall. WortF was bound to get nerfed and to be fair this is still better than the passive bonus people were calling for.

 

What about Trolls?

Berserk is very strong and so is Voodoo Shuffle. That alone is > Undead but they get 5% more dmg against every Hunter Pet (even Ferals? dunno 'bout that) and also get +1% crit on Bows/Throwing Weapons. And on top of that they get the (tiny) health reg infight and a health reg bonus (negligible).


What about Tauren?

They get the usual -%hit by spell school plus 5% more health. Two good racials but also they get warstomp which is not only unique and very useful but also absolutely gamechanging/deciding.


What about Nightelves?

They not only get the aformentioned -%hit by spell school and an actually working Vanish or even stealthopener to ensure Saps (listen to Orangemarmalade Interview) - they also get crucial -2% hit on all melee and ranged attacks which can and do decide games. Many players even gear/gem against these 2%. To put icing on the cake they also have a +1 stealth bonus. This only effects Rogues, Ferals and Nelfs that are Shadowmelding but afterall its at least somewhat useful or even considered a "factor" in some games. (take Ming's talk about the unimportance of it to the next best trash can).

What about Dwarves?

Though their Stoneform has been nerfed in the past too, they still have three relevant Racials which can and are put to use in Arenas today. The basic -%chance to get hit by a certain spell school, Maces weapon skill AND the already mentioned Stoneform. That's still more than UDs will have after the nerf. And trust me, the nerfed WotF lies somewhere between Find Treasure and Stoneform..

What about Draenei?

Even they have a heal, -%hit blablah AND Heroic Presence for their mates.

What about Gnomes?

Escape Artist, -%hit blablah AND 5% more Int.


You already stated that Humans and Orcs will be way better than UDs after 3.3 went live.


So where does all this lead us to? I assume I have to self-quote here:

we're down at Blood Elf level right now minus the ugliness.


I advise you to not make statements you can't back up or even worse are easily annihilated by looking through the racial section at wowwiki for two minutes..

 

you're delusional and I feel sorry for you

 

Thank you for your comprehensive reply. You're detailed analysis of my comment leaves me in sheer admiration.

Other than that you're welcome to explain to me why in the blue hell one "basic" and one "almost useless come 3.3" - racial are - in any way- comparable or even superior to the ones I have listed.

If you're unable to do so, quit wasting my time.

 

Um I didn't state that Orc and Human are going to be better than UD. All I said was they are better than the rest of the field minus UD. 

And I can sum up your comparison fest in a few lines.  No other racial had the impact that WotF had.  An extra CC break on a CC that is present in a lot of top tier comps is more game changing than any other racial avaiable.  Yes, all racials have their own little perks in their own right but none was playing such a significant factor in the arena game. 

 

"almost useless come 3.3" rofl
You just left ME in sheer admiration, how butthurt are you over this thing?

Wotf will still be another trinket vs lock/priest/warrior teams, althought with it's time restriction. 

Tauren:
They get the usual -%hit by spell school plus 5% more health. Two good racials but also they get warstomp which is not only unique and very useful but also absolutely gamechanging/deciding.

LOL! Listen man... you refer to -2% chance to get hit by shadow spells as an "okay" racial in your blog. Then you call -2% chance to get hit by NATURE SPELLS for a "good" racial :P  You also refer to the health bonus as good, but it's really lackluster. Then Warstomp is called "absolutely gamebreaking" while wotf is "almost useless"

Common man, you're not that stupid, so just sit down and get a tissue, and think about what you're saying.

Delusional

 

Link me your armory so I can point out exactly how and why you are completely ******* wrong.


Also - you're a ******* moron.

 

lol what does my armory have anything to do why wotf isnt "almost useless" now? :P

YOU'RE A REALLY BIG DOUCHEBAG

doing it right?

 

Obviously not as butthurt as you about me having my own opinion, amirite?

WotF will not still be another trinket vs. certain teams as it will be more complicated after 3.3 went live.

45sec cd on trinket means I wouldn't be able to WotF anything unless I'm willing to be absolutely vulnerable against stuns and other ccs for the upcoming 45secs.

So the main use after 3.3 will be to break a fear after trinket was already used and the 45sec cd is gone again. WOW HUGE...not.


-x% to be hit is overall an "okay" racial. If I mixed up the descriptions its due to my lacking English skills as its my 2nd foreign language. But what does it matter? Almost everyone has such a talent plus two other good or at least mediocre talents while we're gonna have it and a mediocre WotF and nothing else with 3.3


But yea, I feel you and all the other egos. UDs werde pretty good for the last 5 years so it's ok if they suck the next five years.. correct?


@Awooga

"No other racial had the impact that WotF had."

Sure. Warstomp -> Cyclone has never been gamebreaking.
Sure. Old Perception has never been gamebreaking.
Sure. DMC:D+Bandit's Insignia due to EMFH have never been gamebreaking..
Sure. Shadowmeld+Drinking has never been gamebreaking.

Who the **** is delusional here..jeez.

 

old perception was nerfed, as was shadowmeld. every man for himself is still only good if you have access to good pve gear (ie death's verdict), and not for every class in every comp. for shamans, warstomp is still overpowered, but if you nerf that, you could argue that belf silence needs to be nerfed too.

wotf was always superior against any team with a fear, which, let's face it, most teams have.

"45sec cd on trinket means I wouldn't be able to WotF anything unless
I'm willing to be absolutely vulnerable against stuns and other ccs for
the upcoming 45secs."
this is what every other race has to deal with when they're feared, except 2 minutes. i don't see how it's so bad. i'll trade you my gift of the naaru for will of the forsaken any day of the week.

 

its still best racial in the game with that change, stop whining

 

This. Also, you can cry about how worthless cannibalize is, but it's still a lot more useful than expertise on weapons you're not using (rogues use daggers only pretty much, and no race has expertise for that, doesn't surprise me you suggest it as a new racial for undead) or +15 points in a tradeskill.

Your suggested secondary racials are ridicilous. Basically, you want a passive Bandit's Insignia racial, along with having a PVP trinket AND having WotF? Seriously, you're out of your mind. You'd basically turn undead into humans with added WotF like that. -3% damage would also **** up PVE balance when it comes to warrior tanking (although it's always been a mess).

Using your own statement, that you're down to blood elf level now, why the hell would you advocate a buff then? You obviously don't give a **** about balance and just want ez-mode racials I guess (seeing how many people list blood elf racials as the 2nd best choice as horde race, after the uncomparable WotF). Where are you advocating buffs for blood elves? Undead have had monopoly on the most overpowered racial for nearly 5 years (well, maybe a short break during the age of old perception in arena), now it gets a (much needed) nerf after the first few nerfs still didn't fix the problem and in less than 2 hours or so, undead players are already crying for buffs? Even when the nerf isn't even as severe as some advocated it to be?

 

You should go back and check some of the reactions on the past WotF Nerfs. 20sec->5sec immunity. 5sec to no immunity and break only. It was almost as bad as it is now..again.

The reason I ask for compensating buffs seems to be too simple for most to understand: Even ground. That is why I also added the possibility to just give one set of racials and rename them to all classes.
We'll be on the bottom of the racial-foodchain after the patch. I'd accept that if we were still in 2.x but nowadays they've changed so much concerning racials (see trolls for example) that it would be dumb and wrong to leave us in the upcoming state without any buffs or other forms of help.

 

Even ground? What are you smoking? The nerfed WotF is exactly that, on even ground (and even then it's still better than many racials). The buffs you propose indicate you don't give much about even ground. Undead have never been even ground, they've always been (far) above it and even if this change drops them below it (highly unlikely), then they should stay there for a while to realize how everyone else felt for 4 years or so.

The state of undead in 3.3 is nothing compared to what trolls or night elves used to be. Other overpowered racials got nerfed a long time ago, WotF got what it deserved and it should stay like this. Trolls (who were in a far worse state than 3.3 undead) got help after 4 years only, you're already complaining while the change isn't even live yet.

 

The nerfed WotF will find very very limited use. The strength of it (having kind of a 2nd trinket) will be almost completely gone because not only do we get cd on it when using trinket but the other way around which hurts way more.


Also you seem to not understand that I a) support a WotF Nerf and b) am absolutely aware of its current strength.

But it is blatantly obvious that after the nerf, UDs will be one of the weaker races in WoW.

"Other overpowered racials got nerfed a long time ago"

Yea, WotF was already nerfed twice. The third nerf should come along with some compensation.


And of course I am (as well as thousands of other UDs) complaining now, because as long as its on PTR its likely subject to change. Look what happened to the Vanish fix: Ignorants like you dropped enough tears to prevent it from going live and you bet that is exactly what's happening rite now with WotF but this time not to prevent it from going live but to ensure that there's either some kind of compensation OR other races also get their "fix", see Warstomp, Orc Racials or the alltime-favourite and from 3.3 on "most overpowered race" - the Humans.


I'll end my comment with a quote from you that perfectly reflects your egoistic, stubborn and juvenile attitude towards this topic:

"they should stay there for a while to realize how everyone else felt for 4 years or so."

n/c

 

UDs will not be one of the weaker races in WoW, that's ridicilous. You'll still have an inferior "second trinket" except there'll be some cooldown time in between. There's nothing wrong with that. You'll still be able to break out of an extra fear every 2 minutes compared to every other race, except you won't be able to break it whenever you want, and seeing how a full fear can decide a game you can't say WotF is bad. Escape Artist is nearly identical, except it goes for snares instead of fears. I really don't get where you're drawing this "one of the weaker races" BS from, this might be true if you split up the races between strong and weak and completely disregard the amount of races that would end up in the "weak" pool (pretty much everyone aside from humans, orcs and night elves I guess).

The other overpowered racials stopped being overpowered, that's why they didn't get extra nerfs and WotF did. If they nerfed it from 20 sec fear immunity to what it will be in 3.3, it would've been fine in one go. Blizzard just tends to slightly tweak things instead of completely overhauling it when it comes to certain matters. WotF went from insanely overpowered, to slightly less overpowered, to a little less overpowered, and now it will finally go to "fine".

Reverting the vanish change had nothing to with whining. You should've read the blue post about it. They weren't satisfied with the change because in some cases 0.5 seconds weren't enough to guarantee a decent vanish, and it also countered players with fast reflexes who would AoE you out of stealth in less than 0.5 sec. Warstomp is fine, it's far from overpowered. It's a strong racial but nothing compared to current WotF. Orc racial is basically an extra trinket slot, quite comparable to human racials except they have slightly more options beyond an AP boost and it scales better with content. The -stun duration is nice but it's nothing major anymore imho. Humans all-time favorite? Undead have been the all-time favorite. Human racials weren't really OP until arena came into the picture and rogues and druids were extremely popular (you never heard anybody about perception in season 1 because the stealth classes sucked balls regardless).

I have an egoistic approach to the topic? You're the one crying for buffs before the change has even gone live. You haven't even seen the impact, it's all based on theorycraft now. People adapt to changes, you don't need to cry for compensation instantly. You're also the one who played the race with the most overpowered racial since the retail of WoW (save for the short perception grace period) up until now, while others had to play with **** racials without having the ability to change their race for a bunch of dollars or whatsoever. I never heard any complaints from you about your race when you were on top of the food chain?

 

Our "inferiour second trinket" can only be put to use against three out of 10 classes. It will only be used after trinket is down and we land in a fear after the 45s CD from trinket is gone. Lots of games won't even last long enough to use it at all after the change. Lots of games we will get feared while cd on it from trinket. Lots of games we will be able to use it against an already dr'ed fear that would have lasted only 4secs anyway.

Sure it can still be useful but to a very limited degree. Which is okay if you ask me. But there needs to be compensation. That is my opinion and PoV. You don't share it? Too bad.

Other op racials stopped beeing so? I don't see Warstomp beeing weaker than before, same goes for EMFH or the non-trinketcd-sharing Escape Artist while WotF now finally got the real nerf bat.

Reverting vanish had everything to do with the whining from the forums and other platforms. C'mon, you can't be THAT naive to believe everything that is written in blue colors. Sure they say "it hasn't made it live because of reason X and issue Y". What do you think would happen if they'd say "well, due to the massive ammount of whining, swearing and complaining from all the guys who pay us millions of dollars per month we unfortunately had to revert the vanish fix"?

And of course your approach is egoistic beyond everything since you even write that the UDs should stay on the bottom of the food chain for about 4 years to feel what it's like. That is the same kind of approach you always read from haters:

"Druids were so op throughout the 2nd half of BC it is only fair that they have to suffer now"
"Paladins were so faceroll in S5/s6, finally they SUCK ASS with all three trees nerfed"

That's egoism, ignorance and stupidity combined, perfectly reflecting how less you care about these people and the topic itself while passionately gloating over it.

 

Warstomp isn't OP so it can't stop being OP either, since it never was. EFMH isn't nerfed yet, if they do it, chances are they'll butcher it at once and not in 3 segments like with WotF. Escape Artist was already nerfed iirc, I think it was 1 minute CD before but I might be wrong. Escape Artist also had a chance to fail for a long time but they fixed that recently. Also, escape artist removes debuffs that are easily reapplied and have no DR in the case of snares at least. And even with roots, roots are much less of a gamebreaking CC for non-melee classes than fear (which WotF is for of course) is for everyone except warriors.

Regarding vanish, really, blue has given you the reason for it. If they are lying, so be it, there's still more evidence that supports the claim of above mentioned reasons than the claim of it being reverted due to whining which is just based on assumptions really. We'll never know the real reason behind it, but saying it was because of whining is just assuming things.

Also, I didn't say UD should stay at the bottom of the food chain for 4 years, that's just how you (mis)interpreted it. Let's say 3.3 goes live, UD will be "crippled" (your words, not mine). Maybe 4-5 months later Cataclysm will hit, which has promised a complete racial revamp to put everyone on equal terms. You'll have to "suffer" maybe half a year of bad racials max, compared to other races which had to suffer 10 times worse racials for 4 years (look at trolls). I really don't see the problem here.

Also, you can't compare race to class. If your class is gimped, you have nowhere to go. With races, ~90% of your strength still comes from the class itself without your race impacting it. You can play perfectly fine with a "gimped" race as proven many times before. A gimped class, not so much.

 

Warstomp is not op? Alright, go tell this to the hundreds of people who lost because of it. Warstomp->Cyclone/Hex decides games everyday that would be lost otherwise. For Warriors it can be that one crucial interrupt that leads to a kill especially since they're unable to interrupt due to the change of their main stance while doing pvp aside from 1H+Shield switching and using Shield Bash.

Escape artist reveals your lack of game knowledge. It was buffed TWICE before. CD from 2min to 1min and the cast time was removed (had 0.5s before). Afterwards it received a small nerf as the cd was move up to 1.45min. And while your correctly stated that snares are often easily reapplied it still has some strong impact in several situations. What was the best Warrior race before EMFH went live? What did Noktyn and Serennia play? Correct, gnomes. To remove that one crucial Frost Nova/Entangling Roots decides games and these aren't easily reapplied.
Gnome Mages beeing able to remove a snare after they brought distance between themselves and their opponents can also tell you a lot about how strong EA really is.


Calling my statement a "assumption" is funny, since you could read about people complaining because of the upcoming Vanish fix EVERYWHERE. AJ, Blogs, Forums, MMO. It was full of it.

The comparison you mention is absolutely working since it was only used to express how awful and stupid such "oh you were good so long now you can suck so long as well" comments are. It has nothing to do whether classes and races are comparable.

 

I am not quite sure if you DO realize that in PvE (and therefore also PvP, though it doesnt matter as much) - when it comes to DPS - UD already ARE the worst race to pick? Orc racial > Troll racial > Bloodelf racial > UD racial. Or where could we ever use our awesome WoTF in PvE except fights like Archimonde where it, if used well, benefits us some minor DPS increase?

Now:

Orcs:  (very) good in PvP, extremely good in PvE.
Trolls: average/bad (?) in PvP, very good in PvE
Belfs: average in PvP, average in PvE
UD: very good in PvP, worst race for PvE

3.3

Orcs: (very) good in PvP, extremely good in PvE
Trolls: average/bad (?) in PvP, very good in PvE
Belfs: average in PvP, average in PvP
UD: average in PvP, worst race for PvE.

To me that very much looks like the end of the foodchain since I am not quite sure if trolls are still considered as bad in PvP as they were during S4 (seen more and more Trolls in arena nowadays). This is only Horde since I am not quite sure of the Alliance racials anymore, but I think the human and gnome racials should be superior as well.

- stun duration not a major? Uh....I bet certain classes think very, very different about that.

I agree to the fact that WoTF needed to be nerfed, but this massively maybe is going a bit too far.

 

It has absolutely no effect on 70% of the classes in WoW. EMFH is effective 100% of the time, even has some pve perks (though, rarely does a boss cc), and shadowmeld is broken. If you do not think it is, you are not using it right. I would def say it was the best before, but with this change, no.

As it is now... I would think a 30% reduction would be better, but then i guess in wrath of the global king what does a 7 sec fear matter when your partner dies in 3.

 

"So.. Blizzard eventually decided to
nerf the most overpowered racial in arenas nowadays, coincidentally
just after the race change went live and the majority of horde players
who do pvp/arena competitively ordered their race change from whatever
to Undead. That's how you waste 25 bucks."

haha i thought the same thing.

all i can say is... LOL GET ****** UNDEAD.