Nerf Rogues IMO

first

 

Sup Caton =D 5's man!! THIS WEEK

 

hey caton sup brewski

 

YOU SUCK FGT.  DIE PLZ.

 

rogues are only good because of mages and priest
hunters are only good because of paladins
paladins are only good because of DKs and hunters
mages are only good because of rogues
shaman are only good because of hunters

everything is only good because their weaknesses are covered by other classes... that's how WoW works, and has always worked, and we've seen this excuse from every spec of every class since arenas started.

Sorry that, unlike S4, you can't play with any class in the game and do extremely well.  Welcome to earth.

 

You are ******* retarded. Rogues are only glad worthy in one comp/bracket that takes probably the most skill as a team in the entire game to pull off.

 

Ok now show me one team in which you can't replace a Rogue with a Death Knight or a Hunter and that team will not do better. RMP? Replace Rogue with a Hunter, you have a top 10 TR team. Show me a top 10 RMP on the TR right now. Oh wait. There isn't one.

Your examples are also flawed. Hunters can work well with Shamans, druids, and priests in 2's. Top tier level. Death Knights can also works with good shamans, easily. Mages can clearly work with hunters.

Your entire argument is bull****. Warrios can't work with ANY class at all. 

Even better, give me an example of a GOOD rogue team in 2's. A solid rogue 2's team. There isn't one. 

 

Ok now show me one team in which you can't replace a Rogue with a Death Knight or a Hunter and that team will not do better.

Wait, you can replace a good class with an overpowered class and the team gets better?!  SHOCKING!

Trying to say rogues are bad because DKs/Hunters are overpowered is retarded

Your examples are also flawed. Hunters can work well with Shamans, druids, and priests in 2's. Top tier level.

Yep, and hunters are holy-****-ridiculously-over-the-top overpowered.  Just like rogues were in S4 when they worked well with everything.  Same with S4 druids.

Even better, give me an example of a GOOD rogue team in 2's. A solid rogue 2's team. There isn't one.

Rogue/Mage, Rogue/Shaman, Rogue/Priest.  In b4 'it can't beat hunter/healer or dk/healer' bull****.

 

So let me get this straight, your initial arguement is that: 

"everything is only good because their weaknesses are covered by other classes". Note the use of the word everything

Then you tell me that there are 3 insanely overpowered classes that do well with ANYTHING THEY WANT TO. Hi, my name is contradiction, gtfo.

#2: I'm not here to argue about whether rogues were overpowered, I'm here to argue about the current state of melee in the game. If you want a retrospective, go elsewhere.

#3 Those teams you mentioned are horrible and will not get glad this season with any realiability unless they're wearing a ridiculous amount of PvE.

Essentially your arguement (when you're not contradicting yourself) can be summed up as such:

The game is broken, deal with it.

Ironic from the guy that spent about 4 seasons *****ing about warlocks having a 1-up on mages. 

 

Essentially your arguement (when you're not contradicting yourself) can be summed up as such:  The game is broken, deal with it.

No, my argument is that if you will only be happy if you're as powerful as 3.0.9 DKs/Hunters, expect to be disappointed because by almost all accounts, as those classes are overpowered.

Rogues are a strong class, and they're on par with all the other reasonably balanced classes.  The vast majority of 2v2 Gladiators will be DK/Pally and Hunter/Healer.  2dps can't beat that team (except Mage/Warlock), and other melee/healer can't beat it either, because DKs and Hunters are the best DPS classes in the game at the moment, and both are being nerfed.

The problem right now is that no DPS class can compete with DKs or Hunters, and asking to be buffed to their level is short sighted.

 

Where, at any point, did I say rogues needed to be buffed? I just put stats out there to prove that exceedingly obvious point that Gladiator titles are going to be handed out like candy to retards and should be changed to appropriate titles (Dk, Hunter, Pally).

The nerfs will not come until AFTER titles are giving out, making this an exceedingly meaningless season. That should, in my opinion, be altogether stricken from the record.

 

Where, at any point, did I say rogues needed to be buffed?

I don't really know how else to read the first sentence:

Because I always get a kick out of blogs that actually use stats and factual information I decided to do one on rogue representation for those tools that still thinks rogues are viable due to the existence of RMP.

 

That's saying that rogues aren't a viable class right now, which is obvious. That leaves the obvious possibility of the other classes getting nerfed, which is happening post titles, which is what I have a problem with.

In fact, in retrospect, I set that up in the sentence after that, then proceed to make the last paragraph all about titles. I don't know how much more clear I could've made it. 

 

That's saying that rogues aren't a viable class right now, which is obvious.

http://www.realmhistory.net/arena-statistics/class-breakdown.html

I don't think that's obvious

 

Then I guess you're an idiot to be frank. If we're judging by who will be getting titles here, which is the top 100 or MUCH LESS, on most BG's (calculations courtesy of arena junkies) then your paradigm for over 2k or 2.2k is irrelavent. Your stats are comparitively useless for the set paradigms. Your argument is again completely flawed.

 

You're right for 2v2, wrong for 3v3/5v5.

BG9 2v2 gladiator:  top 97
97th place:  2408

BG9 3v3 gladiator:  top 38
38th place:  2213

BG9 5v5 gladiator:  top 8
8th place:  2179

Same holds true for all other BGs I checked.  I'd say 2.2k is the most relevant statistic.

 

nah affix, rogues are a ****pile. we only succeed because i'm such a ******* ninja.

 

Welcome to earth, where if you're 2400+ rated you can verbally **** out some of the most retarded bull**** known to mankind and people might think you are intelligent.

There is absolutely nothing saying that because something has been that it will be, if you are going to argue that classes with horrible representation are fine and it's the way the game is you are an ignorant little retard.

 

There is absolutely nothing saying that because something has been that it will be, if you are going to argue that classes with horrible representation are fine and it's the way the game is you are an ignorant little retard.

http://www.realmhistory.net/arena-statistics/class-breakdown.html

horrible?  really?  are you retarded?

 

http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/player/2/all/all/25/all/
http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/player/3/all/all/all/all/
http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/player/5/all/all/all/all/

2/3 horrible representation.

 

If only gladiator only required 2200+ not 2400+

 

there are no "horrible" classes right now. dk's, paladins, locks, and hunters are definitely on a tier above the rest, but not to the point where you can't overcome the class disparities by outplaying them. if you honestly think it's "impossible" to get glad ranking as a particular class right now it's because you haven't bothered to learn your class. stop sucking and whining and go improve your game.

 

In that SK top 100 for 2v2 there's one ret, one warrior, multiple rogues (5). And it's Nick for the ret who would probably kickass with any class he played. Generalizations are being made without looking at the specs involved.
Rogues still litter arena from 1700-2100. Soemthing MANY dps classes and platers will likely never even see. DK's need massive nerfs, it's incredibly obvious.

lol @ any class can make it in arena. Statistics directly refute that claim.

 

lol @ any class can make it in arena. Statistics directly refute that claim.

name one that can't
jk there aren't any

 

"Rogues still litter arena from 1700-2100. Soemthing MANY dps classes and platers will likely never even see."

You're such an idiot.  Go drown in some soup.

 

Why when Hunters were at the same representation in arenas as rogues are now, basically 0%, were they 'fine - representation isn't everything'. Now that it's rogues, the fact that they're low representation is all the evidence you need to show that they suck.

I'm confused.

Oh wait, no I'm not, I just looked up what hypocrisy and bias meant, thanks for your help.

 

#1, Hunters were never anywhere near 1%.

#2, I didn't come here to discuss past seasons as I have covered, I have come to discuss the increasingly useless state of any melee classes except a DK.

#3, Hypocricy would imply I took a side in the past, and bias is inherent in every human being. By writing that post you just proved your bias, and if bias is bad and that's your logic, your argument is also invalid. 

 

There was a point where there was exactly 1 hunter in the top 100 (and it was for quite a while), I'll let you work out what percentage 1 is of 100...

If you don't want to talk about past seasons, don't. All I'm saying is that the gameriot 'community' decided back then that representation wasn't a good measure of class balance, yet here you are telling everyone that representation matters because it's rogues now.

And as to whether you personally are a hypocrite, I have no idea, but since it was pretty much THE view then, if you were around for S2-4, you probably are. Bias and balance really don't go together either, they're fairly mutually exclusive. If you're biased, you're not balanced, so yes, in trying to balance a class, bias is bad.

But all in all, I was more talking about the gameriot community in general, you just happened to post a blog talking about representation and how it means the death of the melee class.

Oh, and my bias, i don't play anymore, and back in BC i played a priest, a class that has never really been either ridiculously OP or UP.

 

You can call it whatever you want, but the facts state fairly plainly that there's only one "melee" class in arena right now. The numbers have NEVER been this skewed against standard core classes. Not just rogues, but warriors. 3 classes make up over 70% of the SK 100 in almost every bracket. It was NEVER this insanely skewed before, regardless of which class had the **** end of the stick.

 

I like that you think warriors and rogues are "standard core classes", I assume this means that you think hunters aren't?

Did you not see the druid situation in the later half of BC? Oh right, you don't want to talk about past seasons, but you're happy to state that 'the numbers have NEVER been this skewed'.

And since when should we care about melee more than anything else? Why should i care that the the underpowered classes share an attack type? Why should we care more that it's Rogues + Warriors than if it were some other combo, like Priests + Hunters? If a class is underpowered it should be fixed, why should we care whether it's melee, ranged, healer, DPS, caster, whatever?

Oh, forgot, bias, silly me.

 

Umm, Let's keep putting words in my mouth and making false assumptions, that's a good way to make an arguement.

 I assume this means that you think hunters aren't?

Hunters are in fact the ONLY single "core" class right now that provides an MS debuff in the classic WoW scheme of MS/Support DPS/Healer.  Yeah. You sure do assume.

 And since when should we care about melee more than anything else?

Because currently we have ONE viable "melee" class which clearly is showing weakness in one area of WoW. If it was very blatantly ranged, I would say ranged classes. It is not. If you can't make that connection you're a bigger idiot than I gave you credit for. Oh right. Bias. Silly me. Clearly I'm bias towards melee and the...5 out of 9 classes that are...Wait...That doesn't make any sense. I'm bias towards the majority of classes because they're vastly underpowered compared to three? CAN'T IMAGINE WHY.

Your definition of bias is apparently adressing a very obvious problem that stretches many class boundaries and pointing out how it adversely effects the game.

I will say this, you clearly haven't played the game since Wrath because you clearly have NO IDEA what you're talking about. As much as I appreciate your input, Jasi, actually play the game and see what you're talking about before you talk out your ass about it. 

Then you  imply that druids were this big of a problem in the past. This would be applicable if druid/x/x completely shut every other class out of 2 brackets in arena and nearly shut them out of the third. You can't even compare the two to the problems we have right now. Again. Actually PLAY the game before you talk. 

 

I'm impressed that it only took you 2 hours and 2 posts to work out that when i said "i don't play anymore" i meant that I don't play anymore.

And yes, druids were pretty much the only healer in 2's, and the only reason they weren't the only healer in 3s was because you could play double healer teams, with a druid in it. The only common non-druid 3s team was...PMR, that's seems familiar.

I don't see why i need to play WOTLK to realise that the community here and in wow generally is hypocritical and biased in its use of representations. I'm not claiming rogues/warriors don't suck, i'm just pointing out that last time representations looked like this, it was dismissed because it didn't suit the agenda of the people whining about balance. Now that it suits your whine, it's suddenly important. And by 'your', i mean the general whinge here.

Hence, hypocrisy.

 

I'm impressed you can't comprehend that I do other things other than check a website every 30 minutes to reply to you. Not all of us have the free time to check a website for a game that WE DON'T PLAY.

Also, I played rogue/priest all of S2-S4 in 2's and we dominated heavily, I got glad for 3 seasons with rogue/priest which is completely unrealistic right now. In fact, rogue/any healer now is unrealistic.

I would seriously like you to tell me which blanket area of classes had NO CHANCE to get Glad in BC.

There has NEVER been representations like this, there has been one high healer representation before, which was druids, which PLENTY of people *****ed about CONSTANTLY. That healer played with multiple DPS classes, Rogue, warrior, warlocks, mages, and also left room for decent Priest representation in all brackets. They were also never able to completely replace Paladin's in the 5's bracket, which, while niche, is still a bracket that was owned by Pally's.

Now you see an entirely new situation where you see one healer that runs with the same 2 DPS at all times with absolutely no real mobility because those 2 DPS decimate any other DPS utterly. We're not talking an old dicotomy of damage difference, we're talking double + 50% damage of all the other classes in arena. It's not comperable. It's 3 classes owning 70% of arena. That is unheardof no matter how much you ***** about druids.

 

I'm impressed you can't comprehend that I do other things other than check a website every 30 minutes to reply to you. Not all of us have the free time to check a website for a game that WE DON'T PLAY.

HAHAHA nice burn.

@Sando:

His point is valid. People have constantly called out the world of meleecraft in s3-s4 when armor pen was introduced. We all experience the complete opposite right now.

To the huntertears you spill here: Hunter were a very good class after their rework and every competent hunter did tell you this. The hunterplayerbase is not named huntards by accident. They are just worse. If you'd talk to Cherez, he'd tell you exactly the same. Hunter right now feels like cheating. Never was the rogueclass as faceroll as hunter are right now. Be it HARP or Shs it was still harder to play than the easymode that is hunter at the moment.

Now, I know, I know "BIAS LOOOOOLOL", but every decent theorycrafter will tell you exactly the same (pretty sure 80% of the AJ users would agree on this)


To Catonmars:

In my opinion it has a lot to do with maps and the increasing peels that were spread through the classes. Hunter is as antimelee as it gets (mb despite frostmage) and Paladins have quite a few tool to help their partners getting away. Another thing is, every meleeclass despite DK and feral (which is imo still very vaible and also an exception to the rule) is a very vaible target and is trained by pretty much every makeup in 3s. If I'd get a dollar for everytime I said "Ok we go for the Rogue/Ret/War/(Enhancer)"  on vent, I'd surely be able to pay my internetbills, heh.

 

I'd like to clear up that my rogue ( I'm the priest on Wrestlers IRL) doesn't wear pve gear in arenas. He'd get **** on by hunters/DKs if he had too little resil on.

 

Now go do this for the Cyclone BG from Europe and see how its not the class, it's you

 

shut the fck up ideit

 

oh look a baddie

u mad?

 

the only bad here is u fgt

 

EU Cyclone:

Rogue:
2v2: 2.3%
3v3: 8.2%
5v5: 4.2%

Your reprentation is .5% higher. Congratulations.

 

13 out of 67 gladiatorteams have a rogue atm
8 roguecombs in 3s (out of 24)
oh well 0 in 5s but only 3 teams make the cutoff anyway.

Things are not looking that bad for good rogues in europe imo.

 

RMP teams in the TR top10 if im right aswell, RMP is not dead, rogues are not dead, dks hunters are plain mind numbingly overpowerd, if you disagree then give me the number of the downer unit your from so i can have your interweb connection cutoff

 

After I deciphered whatever language you're speaking, I'm assuming it's some variant of ******* moron, I figured out you said there are RMP's in the top 10? There aren't.

As for RMP being viable, that's what I noted in the article as the ONLY viable thing, but judging by the way you type, I'd be amazed if you could READ the article. Go back to coloring you ******* idiot. Maybe the next one will make it on the fridge. 

 

There are other rogue comps on cyclone in gladiatorrange

 

i wasnt flaming you but w/e lol

 

Oh Ok, then I formally apologize. I am sorry sir.