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by oradol, Level 45
Last updated at January 5, 2009, 12:09 pm
I read the forums. It's true. I don't often post there, but it certainly provides an eye-opening experience every time. It's as if Gameriot represents my local high end clothing store and the WoW forums represent Wal-Mart; when you go to the latter you see those who are on the lowest end of the totem pole. You forget by shopping at that nice place that there are far, far more of the Wal-Mart types than there are of you. The fat, ugly, trashy girls at Wal-Mart wearing those tight fake-velvet track suits find their WoW-counterparts in the terrible QQers of the forums. The ones arguing Warlocks need overall nerfs, because Fear can cause you to DC in Orgrimmar Arena. The ones who played a Hunter in the 1400s for three seasons and truly believe that the dominance of their double BM Hunter 3s team has nothing to do with broken mechanics.

GC made another one of his comments the other day, where he says something without adequately explaining himself and leaves it far too open to interpretation. Bromsius made a nice post about them already. The source can be found here, and the TL;DR is that as often as possible the developers will opt to take the easy solution when posed with a problem. As you can imagine the standard forum rhetoric ensued - Blizzard is lazy, Blizzard doesn't care, Blizzard just wants to make more money, etc. Reading all of this leaves me with one question:

What's wrong with taking the easy route?

Of course this isn't the first time such criticism has been directed at Blizzard for acting in such a way. Whenever balancing is done that is less extensive than players demanded or expected the same accusations have been made of "taking the easy way out". From a short term design standpoint I agree with the QQ, it may be more effective in any given case to completely revamp the mechanics of whatever isn't working. But what about the long term? Not only does the frequency of new problems scale with the complexity of the solution, but what happens when a future concern that could have been easily fixed can't, because so many changes have been made to the mechanics.

You're building a new road to get from point A to point B more quickly. You come to a mountain with a town built on it, which you can either build around or built a tunnel through. What do you do?

Here is a case where the goal is getting somewhere quickly, and the more expensive and complex solution will be more effective. You need to consider the externalities; in the immediate there is the issue of what happens to the town. In the future you need to consider that the mountain is speculated to contain gold, what happens if this turns out to be true? Likewise Blizzard must immediately consider what happens to other aspects of the game, and how this compicates things for the future. As any city-planner can tell you a complex and more efficient roads-system only makes future construction much more difficult.

Take the current PvP issues. Could extensive changes to class mechanics be the most efficient route of balancing? It's quite possible. There is a lot to be said, however, for attempting to solve as much of the problem as possible simply through changes to Reslience mechanics. Changing things one piece at a time helps isolate the problem in the event that it doesn't work. Not being developers puts us in the fortunate position of not needing to worry about anything beyond the immediate, because future changes to aspects of the game beyond that which we're interested in are not our concerns.

I do think that we are in a frustrated position right now where we will criticize Blizzard for just about anything. I've seen raiders complaining about the lack of emphasis on stacking raids class-by-class because it caters to casuals. Really? Did anyone not cheer at the prospect of not needing to bring a ****ty Shadow Priest because you needed a mana battery? I wrote a blog recently in which I stated that even if Resilience doesn't fix the bulk of the problem, as I predicted, the best course of action would still be to see how things turn out. There are certainly reasons to be critical of Blizzard's actions but I don't think that taking the easy way out is necessarily one of them, unless it means doing nothing.

If you enjoyed feel free to... well, you know ;\
     
12 comments
El Conando
El Conando Jan 5, 2009 at 12:26 pm
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I have never seen any indication that Blizzard has specific pvp developers, or a pvp balance team. I also think that the higher ups at Blizzard would rather have their developers working on new content (which is tangible progress) rather than pvp balance ( a time consuming task with no end really). So when they do have to make changes in the name of pvp balance, naturally they prefer to take the route with the least effort.

The real question is why Blizzard doesn't devote more resources (people or time) on pvp balance. They certainly have the money. I think its because Blizzard has a monopoly on the mmo market, they can afford to be miserly.
oradol
oradol Jan 5, 2009 at 12:43 pm
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Actually, I believe that they do have a few people who focus on PvP. The lead developers call the shots on everything though, because they're the ones forced to look at the game from every angle. I don't think it's really the resources at all, because it can't take that many resources to change things here and there. When WotLK beta was live they were able to make a list of new changes every week and I don't think those people went anywhere.

I think for them it's a choice between making lots of changes frequently and never reaching balance because of it, or making a few changes slowly and eventually coming close to balance with a more rocky period in between.
Bromsius
Bromsius Jan 5, 2009 at 12:28 pm
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Likewise Blizzard must immediately consider what happens to other aspects of the game, and how this compicates things for the future.

future changes to aspects of the game beyond that which we're interested in are not our concerns.

Those two quotes simply confirm what I've been thinking for a long time (and I know others have) that the PvP game needs to be separated from the PvE. Of course this is a pretty big change but if they were to do it they could make changes to one part of the game that wouldn't affect the other. Nevertheless, Blizz take the easy solution and do nothing which I talked about in my original post here.
oradol
oradol Jan 5, 2009 at 12:43 pm
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Hit the wrong button, reply is below :)
oradol
oradol Jan 5, 2009 at 12:38 pm
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Well I think that separating the game is the easy solution, don't you? Imagine if PvE gear only did 50% damage against players, or if you could only use PvP gear in BGs/Arenas. Or even at the most extreme, if they changed how certain spells work against PvP or PvE targets altogether.

They have been very adamant about not doing this. I think that as far as keeping PvP and PvE apart using only a single stat (Resilience) they have done a good job. Making the two co-exist is the more difficult route, and in the long term separating them might be easiest.

And like I said, easiest is probably best :)
Kheta
Kheta Jan 5, 2009 at 3:36 pm
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If blizzard really wanted to balance WoW's PvP, they would have done it during WotLK development.

Fact is, we, the hardcore playerbase, are a minority. So, even if we quit, blizzard wouldn't give a **** about it.

Casuals don't care about balancing, hardcore PvE etc and they are waaaayyyy easy to satisfy, so why bother ?

I just don't see any "real" change coming as the game is right now.
Marus
Marus Jan 6, 2009 at 3:51 am
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Kheta said
If blizzard really wanted to balance WoW's PvP, they would have done it during WotLK development.

Fact is, we, the hardcore playerbase, are a minority. So, even if we quit, blizzard wouldn't give a **** about it.

Casuals don't care about balancing, hardcore PvE etc and they are waaaayyyy easy to satisfy, so why bother ?

I just don't see any "real" change coming as the game is right now.
Thats true. And all their comments mostly cater to the majority who is whining in their official forums. Most of whom don't really know much about the game and just had some frustrating experiences because they are either undergeared (many still don't understand how much difference 10% better equip makes) or they lack knowledge about game mechanics.

So their seemingly effort to "balance" the game is in truth only an effort to keep those uninformed whiners at a minimum. Thats why they often make changes according to whines exactly opposite to what they said endless times they would never do.

The stupid thing is...instead of changing the game according to QQ of uninformed players they could often just teach those very same players about the game. Explain it to them. Share informations. Explain in what way DK/Retpaladin is not overpowered. Explain how other setups should be able to beat them. Show videos of really skilled players playing against each other and being able to stand up to seemingly overpowered combinations.

Also talk about how they envisoned how they way up the equipement tree should be.

The game is by no means balanced. But the big problem imho is that the changes they make are not oriented on real balance (since as you pointed out they don't care for the hardcore gamers who actually notice real imbalance) but on the QQ by the masses. Sometimes the masses are right (DKs and especially Repaladins are overpowered) sometimes they are very wrong. But thats not the way to balance a game.

But here is were the dog bites its tail. They don't really care about balance. They care about catering to the masses which means making changes whne to many players don't like how it works now. Without any importance to whether thats balanced or not.
Abdoom
Abdoom Jan 5, 2009 at 2:34 pm
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Resilience's value or item point cost needs to improve (or maybe just overall buffs to the glad pieces like in the beginning of TBC) or a new pvp stat should be added.

Another thing that needs serious looking into is retarded talents that give you magic resist based on your level, these always end up either useless or completely retarded depending on gear, how spell pen is handed out and your class. The ancient resist system they have in place has always been faulty, they've admitted to that quite a few times, might want to stop building talents and specs around it.

RMP vs. any warlock team: mage armor + arcane talents + shadow protection/aura and you get 200+ shadow resist, pretty much immune to spell lock.
oradol
oradol Jan 5, 2009 at 2:43 pm
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They need to lower the item budget cost of Resilience to the point where full Deadly (ilvl 213) PvP gear reaches the cap once that extra item budget is spent on more Resilience.

I expect that with each new PvE dungeon with gear of a higher ilvl, PvP gear will gain a new set as well. The top set should always be capped, so the value of Resilience should change constantly to maintain this.

And Resistance is stupid. It should be for damage and only damage, not for resisting Spell Locks and such.
jsunlol
jsunlol Jan 5, 2009 at 5:31 pm
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here's what blizzard should do:

bring back the TR and remove all arena, bgs etc from live. But this time, make the TR last indefinitely and not just exist when they hold tournaments.

breakdown:
PVP: TR
PVE: live

this solution is both quick, effective and would make me re-enable my account.
aimlessgun
aimlessgun Jan 5, 2009 at 8:04 pm
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As much as this has been proposed, it's pretty clear by now that Blizzard has a vision of how their game should be played, and that vision is everyone doing both PvE and PvP.
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