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by Treisk, Level 14
Last updated at March 7, 2008, 4:13 am
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Note: Representation percentages are weighted by class population versus where they are expected to be in class representation.
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Overall
255-345% is balanced (indicated by *)
1. Druid - 540.50%
2. Priest - 463.50%
3. Rogue - 381.10%
4. Warlock - 354.30%
5. Warrior - 300.40%*
6. Shaman - 226.80%
7. Mage - 200.70%
8. Paladin - 196.60%
9. Hunter - 136.20%
By bracket
85-115% is balanced (indicated by *)
2200
2v2
1. Druid - 276.0%
2. Warlock - 149.2%
3. Rogue - 144.2%
4. Warrior - 130.4%
5. Priest - 113.3%*
6. Hunter - 43.0%
7. Shaman - 37.8%
8. Paladin - 19.7%
9. Mage - 8.7%
3v3
1. Druid - 184.0%
2. Rogue - 175.1%
3. Priest - 164.8%
4. Mage - 96.0%*
5. Warlock - 93.2%*
6. Warrior - 90.7%*
7. Shaman - 50.4%
8. Hunter - 50.2%
9. Paladin - 29.5%
5v5
1. Priest - 185.4%
2. Paladin - 147.4%
3. Shaman - 138.6%
4. Warlock - 111.9%*
5. Mage - 96.0%*
6. Druid - 80.5%
7. Warrior - 79.3%
8. Rogue - 61.8%
9. Hunter - 43.0%
1850
2v2
1. Druid - 184.0%
2. Rogue - 154.5%
3. Priest - 133.9%
4. Warlock - 121.2%
5. Warrior - 90.7%*
6. Shaman - 75.6%
7. Paladin - 68.8%
8. Mage - 61.1%
9. Hunter - 50.2%
3v3
1. Druid - 138.0%
2. Rogue - 154.5%
3. Priest - 133.9%
4. Warlock - 102.5%*
5. Paladin - 88.4%*
6. Shaman - 88.2%*
7. Mage - 87.3%*
8. Warrior - 85.0%*
9. Hunter - 50.2%
5v5
1. Priest - 154.5%
2. Shaman - 138.6%
3. Paladin - 137.6%
4. Warlock - 102.5%*
5. Druid - 92.0%*
6. Mage - 87.3%*
7. Warrior - 85.0%*
8. Rogue - 82.4%
9. Hunter - 50.2%
---------------------------------------------
Overviews and Analysis:
-- It appears that Mages are VERY balanced in 3v3 and 5v5 overall. Warlocks, also, are the second-most balanced class in the game at this point in time. Believe it or not, Warriors are the most balanced class in the game, overall.
-- Druids are officially the most overpowered class in WoW Arena; currently, Hunters are officially the most underpowered.
-- Casting needs reworking in some way shape or form to allow casting classes to keep up with classes based on Instant casts. (See the bottom of this post, or ctrl+f "invsca")
-- I feel a lot of the weakness of the Hunter class is that we have the only true white damage in the game (I say "true" because I don't believe Wands should be the base of a caster's DPS) that we must be standing still to move. The current Auto Shot would be similar to making Slam (with 2/2 Improved) a Warrior's auto attack with a cooldown, rather than what it is now. Being able to Auto Shot while moving would see a strong increase in Hunter ability in Arenas without throwing their DPS completely out of whack (by, say, buffing AP coefficients or other sorts of DPS buffs).
-- Mages are substantially weak as in 2v2 as a result of Druid activity; as Druids became more strongly represented, Mages became obsolete, as 2v2 games became less about burst and more about outlast. On top of this, Druid chain-shifting trumps Frost Mage shatter combos. I believe buffing Spellsteal is a step in the right direction, but giving Mages some sort of incentive to go deeper into Arcane (i.e. buffing Arcane Blast or adding another Arcane nuke) would be a great solution. Why do I suggest this? With the buffs to Improved Blink, the mana pool improvements in Arcane, and more importantly, the mana regeneration buff (which I believe needs to be reworked similar to Dreamstate) would make this tree more solid if Mages could count on their DPS being solid as the spec, especially the burst. Cold Snap, Ice Barrier, and Water Elemental simply can't be given up by a serious Arena Mage in 90% of cases. But enough of that rant.
-- Hunter is the only class in the bottom 4 on every chart, and are receiving zero documented buffs in 2.4. Rogues are being buffed in 2.4, despite them being over-represented. Paladins and Shamans are getting well-deserved buffs. Mages are getting buffed in the wrong places, given where they're weak. Based on the comps Mages play in 3s and 5s, Mage burst needs to be toned down while their overall DPS needs a buff, and their ability to outlast needs a buff.
-- Paladins have gone completely to Hell in 2s and 3s, while Druids and Priests are definitely on the rise. 2.4 will not change much for Paladins, I predict, as one solid heal per 15 seconds (Holy Shock) is not going to bring Paladins back to the forefront; Paladins are still too easily controlled.
-- I believe the nerfs to Druids in 2.4 will bring down Druids' "Overall" percentage down by a fair amount; however, they will still be the strongest class in WoW. Mana Drain nerfs will bring Warlock and Hunter activity down; the mana drain and PI nerf will bring Priest activity down. Mutilate buffs will bring Rogues up slightly. Mana drain nerfs and other Mage buffs will bring Mages up slightly. Paladins will go up very slightly from the Holy Shock buff, and the "Turn Evil" buff.. Shamans will move up from the Restoration buffs and the nerfs to Priests and Druids. (For my predictions on %s after 2.4, see the bottom of this post, or ctrl+f "2.4pred")
invsca------------
Radikal's quick-review of instants vs casts. (paraphrased slightly for melee classes) ( http://www.radikalnoise.com/ )
---------------------
Druid 540.50% - instant spells
Priest 463.50% - instant spells
Rogue 381.10% - instant abilities
Warlock 354.30% - instant spells
Warrior 300.40% - instant abilities
Shaman 226.80% - cast spells
Mage 200.70% - cast spells
Paladin 196.60% - cast spells
Hunter 136.20%
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2.4pred----------
My predictions for class representation, post-2.4.
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1. Druid - 480% (was 540%, -60)
2. Priest - 420% (was 463%, -43))
3. Rogue - 410% (was 381%, +29)
4. Warlock - 335% (was 354%, -19)
5. Warrior - 330%* (was 300%, +30)
6. Shaman - 270% (was 226%, +44)
7. Mage - 220% (was 200%, +20)
8. Paladin - 211% (was 196%, +15
9. Hunter - 120% (was 136%, -16)
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17 comments
nzgs Mar 7, 2008 at 4:41 am
+2 votes
You do realise that if (hypothetically) a bunch of guys levelled up some feral druids strictly for raiding purposes and did no Pvp whatsoever, that would result in druids becoming more balanced according to these kinds of statistics since they are contributing to the overall population of druids. The opposite is also true, for every PvE-only hunter (and there are a lot of them), hunters are made to appear underpowered on these kinds of statistics. You might find if you opened your eyes that hunters are doing very nicely indeed since their buffs.
Class population should have no bearing on pvp balance whatsoever, and anyone who includes it in their data needs to go back to school. Your conclusions are based on your data so they are also voided.
Class population should have no bearing on pvp balance whatsoever, and anyone who includes it in their data needs to go back to school. Your conclusions are based on your data so they are also voided.
Treisk Mar 7, 2008 at 4:57 am
-1 votes
The statistics are based on the amount of players who are on Arena Teams.
And four Feral Druids rolling together (a raiding guild would never need more than 4 offtanks even as backups) wouldn't throw these numbers out of whack.
Blizzard has the resources to mine their own data in a way that allows them to create these kinds of statistics.
And four Feral Druids rolling together (a raiding guild would never need more than 4 offtanks even as backups) wouldn't throw these numbers out of whack.
Blizzard has the resources to mine their own data in a way that allows them to create these kinds of statistics.
Diego Mar 7, 2008 at 5:21 am
+1 votes
This is pretty ignorant considering you don't know the method of normalization.
Treisk Mar 7, 2008 at 5:31 am
-1 votes
It would be ignorant of Blizzard to post statistics such as these weighted by the entire game's population rather than the population they're talking about.
Aments Mar 7, 2008 at 9:02 am
+1 votes
Well, they did. Also, you COMPLETELY misunderstood what the data is showing.
"-- Druids are officially the most overpowered class in WoW Arena; currently, Hunters are officially the most underpowered."
This data shows how the REPRESENTATION compares to their EXPECTED REPRESENTATION. Just because hunters have lower representation than *Blizzard* expects, does not mean they are the most underpowered class. Just the most *under-represented* - in Blizzards eyes.
"-- Druids are officially the most overpowered class in WoW Arena; currently, Hunters are officially the most underpowered."
This data shows how the REPRESENTATION compares to their EXPECTED REPRESENTATION. Just because hunters have lower representation than *Blizzard* expects, does not mean they are the most underpowered class. Just the most *under-represented* - in Blizzards eyes.
TehJerk Mar 7, 2008 at 11:46 am
+1 votes
i dont understand how that makes hunters any less in need of buffs considering kalgan has stated they balance according to representation. overpowered/underpowered has nothing to do with it, because again its based on representation.
its definitely a flawed means of balance, i dont agree hunters need buffs either, but i dont see how the OP is wrong when it is very likely how kalgan is going to see it and buff accordingly.
its definitely a flawed means of balance, i dont agree hunters need buffs either, but i dont see how the OP is wrong when it is very likely how kalgan is going to see it and buff accordingly.
klol Mar 7, 2008 at 12:17 pm
+1 votes
Hunters arent in need of buffs in the slightest. If you need buffs on your hunter you're bad.
Buldoz Mar 7, 2008 at 7:41 am
+0 votes
5. Warrior - 300.40%*
255-345% is balanced (indicated by *)
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Real stats here:
http://www.realmhistory.net/arena-statistics/class-breakdown.html
255-345% is balanced (indicated by *)
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Real stats here:
http://www.realmhistory.net/arena-statistics/class-breakdown.html
Tzatziki Mar 7, 2008 at 9:41 am
+1 votes
I wrote a blog about this earlier as well; the funny thing is those nonnormalized statistics show hunters as kind of weak as well.
@Treisk - BS imo. Hunters are fine, if not overpowered, and this is coming from a hunter. We can get venge glad in any bracket, if you're talking about rating (granted with some shenanagins to get around 2346 - perhaps switching in a druid for the war, etc.). But there is NOTHING more that hunters need.
The "buff" you're suggesting would be meaningless for hunters. All it would cause its lots of *****ing, and it wouldn't really make good hunters better. Hunters in 2s/3s, and in pure drain in 5s, don't care about their sustained dps output really, they care about putting out enough pressure at given times to force controllable heals (bash into viper, silence into viper, etc.). Most fights don't see a kill until someone's oom on the other team, so why should hunters get more dps? They don't need any, they're fine.
@Treisk - BS imo. Hunters are fine, if not overpowered, and this is coming from a hunter. We can get venge glad in any bracket, if you're talking about rating (granted with some shenanagins to get around 2346 - perhaps switching in a druid for the war, etc.). But there is NOTHING more that hunters need.
The "buff" you're suggesting would be meaningless for hunters. All it would cause its lots of *****ing, and it wouldn't really make good hunters better. Hunters in 2s/3s, and in pure drain in 5s, don't care about their sustained dps output really, they care about putting out enough pressure at given times to force controllable heals (bash into viper, silence into viper, etc.). Most fights don't see a kill until someone's oom on the other team, so why should hunters get more dps? They don't need any, they're fine.
Treisk Mar 7, 2008 at 10:34 am
+0 votes
Again you're not getting what I'm saying; if you reread it, I specifically said we DIDN'T need more DPS. The auto shot change I suggest is directed more towards allowing us more mobility by letting us go longer without standing still. How does that increase our DPS?
Tzatziki Mar 7, 2008 at 11:10 am
+1 votes
We have plenty of mobility, we just sacrifice our DPS for it. You can run without autoshotting, and in fact thats what we do a significant amount of time. My point is we can be mobile, or we can dps, and its not necessary for us to do both at the same time to be successful.
Treisk Mar 7, 2008 at 10:35 am
+0 votes
@Buldoz, I still see Hunters being bottom 4 in all SIX, a trait no other class shares.
Tzatziki Mar 7, 2008 at 11:17 am
+1 votes
Honestly I'm convinced Hunters in general are just bad...I haven't 5sed since s2 simply because I can't get 5 people on, but I can easily maintain 2200 in 2s/3s, and I did in 5s last season, before the changes...I don't quite understand why people have trouble with it.
CLC is obviously successful with their hunter comp (with the caveat of it being weak against 2346, but all comps have their counter), plenty of people are successful at hunter/druid/lock, and likewise hunter/druid. It's not like it takes an exceptional amount of skill on a hunters part to make those comps work. Some people argue that "just because Hamchook can do it, doesn't mean the class is balanced." To a certain point I understand, and I thought that at one point, but honestly now I've tried and its not. that. hard.
CLC is obviously successful with their hunter comp (with the caveat of it being weak against 2346, but all comps have their counter), plenty of people are successful at hunter/druid/lock, and likewise hunter/druid. It's not like it takes an exceptional amount of skill on a hunters part to make those comps work. Some people argue that "just because Hamchook can do it, doesn't mean the class is balanced." To a certain point I understand, and I thought that at one point, but honestly now I've tried and its not. that. hard.
Solange Mar 7, 2008 at 11:56 am
+1 votes
"Priest 463.50% - instant spells" "Mage 200.70% - cast spells" lol. what are you smoking.
I'll bet you anything that in any bracket the priest cast way WAY more
spells than the pvp ice mage. in arenas and regular pvp both i cant
even recall a mage casting icebolt, its all instants (and they easily
win a duel with all instants). the few times they do get to cast a bolt
is much less than the various flash heals and mana burns the priest has
to do.
I'll bet you anything that in any bracket the priest cast way WAY more
spells than the pvp ice mage. in arenas and regular pvp both i cant
even recall a mage casting icebolt, its all instants (and they easily
win a duel with all instants). the few times they do get to cast a bolt
is much less than the various flash heals and mana burns the priest has
to do.
Tut Mar 7, 2008 at 12:36 pm
+0 votes
It's all about the Druids.......
Everythime I think about WOW class balance it just keeps getting more and more clear.....
It's all about the Druids.......
2v2 sucks because of Druids, 3v3 sucks because of Druids, and now even 5v5 is starting to suck because of Druids.
If Druids were even remotly balanced, you would see lots of the other issues sort themselves out.
Everythime I think about WOW class balance it just keeps getting more and more clear.....
It's all about the Druids.......
2v2 sucks because of Druids, 3v3 sucks because of Druids, and now even 5v5 is starting to suck because of Druids.
If Druids were even remotly balanced, you would see lots of the other issues sort themselves out.
Inukenshin Mar 7, 2008 at 3:15 pm
+1 votes
In 3v3 I pray that the team has a druid. In 2v2 I pray that the team has a druid. 90% of the time druid means a win.
Elmanesse Mar 7, 2008 at 6:06 pm
+2 votes
Arena representation biased on % of the class is stupid, they need to use pure number or people AT a high level of play rather then a % of people of a class at high level.
These numbers just show how many bad warriors etc are out there nothing about game balance besides stupidly obvious trends.
With the invention of armory 3rd party data gathering sites are just as accurate as blizzards numbers and as we can see do a MUCH better job of interpreting the data they have.
If there are 2000 warriors and 1000 rogues there shouldn't be 100 warriors above say 2200 vs 50 rogues at that level of play it should be 75/75. Otherwise warriors are obviously overpowered as we get into higher ratings the numbers biased off of how many of a class there are shouldn't matter at all as there is such a huge population sample.
These numbers just show how many bad warriors etc are out there nothing about game balance besides stupidly obvious trends.
With the invention of armory 3rd party data gathering sites are just as accurate as blizzards numbers and as we can see do a MUCH better job of interpreting the data they have.
If there are 2000 warriors and 1000 rogues there shouldn't be 100 warriors above say 2200 vs 50 rogues at that level of play it should be 75/75. Otherwise warriors are obviously overpowered as we get into higher ratings the numbers biased off of how many of a class there are shouldn't matter at all as there is such a huge population sample.
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