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by Subparbdf, Level 27
Last updated at December 28, 2008, 1:20 am

I've been doing quite a bit of arena lately, peaking at around 1900 in 2s as bmhunter/resto shaman. Probably the cheesiest thing I've done but who cares, that's all arena is right now. Play to win. The main problem in arena right now as most everyone knows is damage. Healers are dieing in the duration of stuns and silences 100-0. If I'm not spamming LHWing on myself with ES on me I'm going to die. If it's 2 dps and MS it doesn't matter I'm going to die anyways. So how do we fix this?

 


Let's be honest here. All damage is overpowered. The most overpowered classes right now are the ones who actually have the time to lock down their opponents while doing this ridiculous damage or able to mitigate the damage by a large amount. Ret paladins(HoJ/Repent), Rogues(cs/garrote/kidney), Mage(cs/impact/df), and DKs(Strangulate), and BM Hunter(Double intim while being uncontrollable completely.) So what needs to happen? Damage must be scaled down all across the boards. This not only will nerf the classes that are being carried by their instant lock downs and ridiculous on demand damage but will buff the classes who require survivability and cast times to cc.

 


But how can we nerf all damage without massive class overhauls and pve nerfs? Arena entrance debuffs such as 50% damage reduction aura while entering an arena? Nah, that would still make pve gear a viable option. Why not give a buff to something everyone should be stacking already? Resilience, THE pvp stat. If resilience's critical damage reduction was changed to flat damage reduction this would fix everything. This not only nerfs damage from all classes, but gives the classes that require strong survivability and casted cc a fighting chance. This is the easiest change blizzard could make to the game that would instantly silence critics. Obviously certain classes will still need to be balanced after this change but for the most part this would save arena in its current state. People would start surviving kidney shots. Locks would live long enough to throw out cc and spread dots. Healers would have the globals to do things other than just spam heals. Pvp would be somewhat normalized or at least brought closer to what we loved in burning crusade.
     
39 comments
Philar
Philar Dec 28, 2008 at 1:40 am
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Kyiz
Kyiz Dec 28, 2008 at 1:40 am
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"that's all arena is right now. Play to win" 

ahh thats what I've been doing wrong the past 5 seasons. 
Subparbdf
Subparbdf Dec 28, 2008 at 1:41 am
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Someone knows what play to win means.
Kyiz
Kyiz Dec 28, 2008 at 1:43 am
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Clearly isn't me. I've been playing to lose all along, no wonder i could never peak over 2k.
Kyiz
Kyiz Dec 28, 2008 at 2:06 am
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thanks kintt, already bought 15 of them.

btw hows the priest/shaman 
cydial
cydial Dec 28, 2008 at 2:41 am
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Take, for example, Sun Tzu’s five essentials for victory:

He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.

Rofl, Sun Tzu knew what que dodging was.
Lymp
Lymp Dec 28, 2008 at 12:15 pm
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Vaim
Vaim Dec 28, 2008 at 2:18 am
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I don't think you realize just how much healers can heal.
I fire a crit frostfire bolt with AP trinket etc up, it might crit for up to 10k if it goes really well - a healer casts a big heal and heals for 15k a shot.

I've played some 2v2 games with 2 arcane mages for the giggles up to ~1900 atm (i have ~1900 spelldam after talents, he has over 2k) and after our ap+pom are used, there is just no way in hell we'll kill any kind of a healing class.
Now, when i at the moment get 27% crit with molten armor and focus magic from the other mage, add 30% to the next spell after pom is used - that's 57% that my pyro or whatever will crit.
Once resilience and much higher HP pools are in? It will be murdered to below 45% and even if it does crit - it will to ****all damage.

Give it time, no way i want to go back to the 25min 2v2 games i played as rogue priest vs rogue druid etc.
Subparbdf
Subparbdf Dec 28, 2008 at 2:20 am
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25 minute 2v2 games are better than 12 second 2v2 games.

Also, not too sure what you mean by "once higher hp pools and more resil sets in" I'm almost completely geared out in pvp gear. 850 resil and 19.3k hp. I'll maybe gain 1000 hp by finishing off my gear and about 50 more resil. Damage isn't going to magically set in. People will still die in stuns/silences.
Guidor
Guidor Dec 28, 2008 at 4:12 am
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"and after our ap+pom are used, there is just no way in hell we'll kill any kind of a healing class."

HAHAHA are you kidding? 
Vaim
Vaim Dec 28, 2008 at 9:16 am
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Arcane barrage hits for 2,5k at most - every 3 seconds. Healers heal themselves full in 1-2 heals if they cast.
Druids and priests don't have to cast anything, hell, the priest shield absorbs 5k damage on it's own with renew, pom etc topping up health. All you have to do is have your dps peel for you and you los the mages by hugging a pole.
Works wonders, really.

Time your own cooldowns for when the burst is incoming and hug walls all the time.
People seem to have forgotten that you can cc and ****.

There are loads of healing paladins crushing 2v2 games, open your eyes.
Yiska
Yiska Dec 28, 2008 at 10:07 am
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That's why you team up with a class with an ms effect and you **** them hardcore.
Kheta
Kheta Dec 28, 2008 at 9:58 am
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It would be normal that 2 arc mage can't win anything because of how stupid the setup is.
Arirang
Arirang Dec 28, 2008 at 10:57 am
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I don't think you realize just how much healers can heal.
I fire a crit frostfire bolt with AP trinket etc up, it might crit for up to 10k if it goes really well - a healer casts a big heal and heals for 15k a shot.

I've played some 2v2 games with 2 arcane mages for the giggles up to ~1900 atm (i have ~1900 spelldam after talents, he has over 2k) and after our ap+pom are used, there is just no way in hell we'll kill any kind of a healing class.
Now, when i at the moment get 27% crit with molten armor and focus magic from the other mage, add 30% to the next spell after pom is used - that's 57% that my pyro or whatever will crit.
Once resilience and much higher HP pools are in? It will be murdered to below 45% and even if it does crit - it will to ****all damage.

Give it time, no way i want to go back to the 25min 2v2 games i played as rogue priest vs rogue druid etc.

None replies to Vaim (hide)
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So, between two mages cycling imp counter spell.. how is a healer living through your flip-a-coin-head-or-tails rate of crit pom pyro for upto 10k damage(x2) which is followed by fire blast I'm guessing(x2).
kavekk
kavekk Dec 28, 2008 at 11:35 am
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Bubble
Pain Suppression
Prehot + Barkskin
Prehot, earthshield and the talent which heals you when you dip below 20%.

There you go.
Yiska
Yiska Dec 28, 2008 at 11:53 am
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Grounding totem
letting your partnet silence one of the mages

It's a pretty ****ty setup.
Arirang
Arirang Dec 28, 2008 at 11:58 am
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kavekk said
Bubble
Pain Suppression
Prehot + Barkskin
Prehot, earthshield and the talent which heals you when you dip below 20%.

There you go.
PreHoT I can understand, but Pain Suppression and Barkskin not so much.

You should already be silenced before getting those off, or if you did anticipate and got those off, I'd not engage and delay the fight for at least 12sec via entering invisibility.

So, the only thing that can help you is your PreHoTs, and your teammate, and maybe a battlemasters trinket. Hopefully impact does not proc, which is very possible that it does.

I mean, the goal is to really land those pom pyros and a follow up spell simultaneously. Which can easily top over 20k damage + possible ignite tick and possible impact proc(4 spells with 10% chance to proc between two mages).

I mean.. yeah.. shamans have that thing where their HP dips low, they gain 10% of their total health. At highest.. maybe it's 2300 heal. Erm.. Pretty sure one ignite tick does more than enough to nulify that. If done well, it's at least a 7sec lock out of casting any spell whatsoever(1sec error margin).
kavekk
kavekk Dec 28, 2008 at 11:17 pm
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You can PS while silenced. If you can't predict when a mage burst is coming (they have you in the open, this should be rare or you're bad) well enough to risk a barkskin then you're bad. If they wait it out, they lose the chance to kill you. Can also be used while impact stunned if they try and work that in.
wisdomcube
wisdomcube Dec 28, 2008 at 2:34 am
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Alot of people are just "playing to win" by running ****** comps. If you play with a arcane mage, mutilate rogue BM hunter or boomkin you aren't trying to be successful by outskilling your opponents. Your doing it because thats what will get your rating high and thats all that matters. Its the same people who were rogues mages and priest and would only run PMR. The same people than were a lock and only ran WLD. No one is trying to make a good comp for the future they are just nigging it up for current success.

Look at every single top resto druid....no one is resto because yes its bad but they are just looking for w/e is OP to carry them to a high rating. How much is skill and how much is spec is the main problem. Yes you could be a 2500 resto druid s4 but guess what...you were a resto druid.
Subparbdf
Subparbdf Dec 28, 2008 at 2:36 am
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Yeah, and unless blizzard nerfs damage completely or changes resil to actually reduce the damage you take there will never be finesse comps.
wisdomcube
wisdomcube Dec 28, 2008 at 2:43 am
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Or their needs to be penalties for blowing cooldowns. Rogue mage vs warrior shaman sup? If you gain AP you also take 30% more damage etc. Rogues just using cheapshot kidney shot vanish and reopening is stupid also, that needs to be changed if the damage isn't.
Kheta
Kheta Dec 28, 2008 at 10:03 am
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wisdomcube said
Or their needs to be penalties for blowing cooldowns. Rogue mage vs warrior shaman sup? If you gain AP you also take 30% more damage etc. Rogues just using cheapshot kidney shot vanish and reopening is stupid also, that needs to be changed if the damage isn't.
Won't change the fact that the game is all about retarded burst dmg.

Bursts needs to be tuned down. And if it's needed, healing too.

But it won't happen, wow is the new sims online since wotlk.
Qils
Qils Dec 28, 2008 at 3:44 am
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Even though everyone knows this, I'ma say it again.  The game needs more than just resilience, the game is broken as ****.  I think alot of people are going to quit.
Akroma
Akroma Dec 28, 2008 at 4:02 am unhide comment
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Subparbdf
Subparbdf Dec 28, 2008 at 4:02 am
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even with 850 resil it feels like you're wearing 0 so if anything its saving the game from being even worse atm.
Riddler
Riddler Dec 28, 2008 at 4:03 am
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Im just curious, does anybody else think that when games start to get longer, and it becomes easier to survive the excessive damage right now, that druids are going to be some of the top healers again due to their healing mechanics. I mean Druids were hands down the best healer because they could stay mobile the whole fight and keep people alive through HOTs alone because damage was not high enough to burn through them easily. And then because they could almost "fire and forget" they could cast cyclone with out too much worry.
Gnome from rome
Gnome from rome Dec 28, 2008 at 4:13 am
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If the game changes and games get longer, sure maybe. But there's no signs thats going to happen. 1200 resilience isn't going to do **** when people get bursted without ever getting crit.
Abdoom
Abdoom Dec 28, 2008 at 7:32 am
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DKs alone would prevent that. Plague strike removes all lb stacks without it even blooming, not to mention every tick of blood plague has a 25% chance of removing a hot.

Still viable, just don't expect them to dominate like that ever again.
Charr3d
Charr3d Dec 28, 2008 at 9:04 am
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I still approve to the suggestion slappywag suggested:

Make PVP gear have a 5 piece bonus that reduces damage taken by a considerable % and also healing taken by a considerable %.
Balance these percentages out so games last an ideal duration. Not the endless mana wars from pre 3.0 and not the current 5-second gibfests.
This will also directly fix the problem of PVE gear in PVP & people trying to use 4/5 PVP set & 4/8 of their Tier set in the future.
Subparbdf
Subparbdf Dec 28, 2008 at 1:28 pm
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That's essentially the same thing I'm talking about. Making resilience passivly reduce the damage you take. Just change the critical damage reduction to damage reduction from all sources.
Charr3d
Charr3d Dec 28, 2008 at 1:40 pm
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If it's resil doing this people can still stack PVE gear uptil a certain amount though. (Read my comment to Nzgs for more clarification)
nzgs
nzgs Dec 28, 2008 at 10:11 am
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I just don't buy the idea that some reduction in damage - via a set bonus or a change to resilience - is going to stop people using PvE gear.

Rogues were rocking 200 resilience in season4 during 10 minute matches, same with paladins. If this change took place then I wouldn't be surprised if rogues abandon resilience altogether and roll in full naxx25 gear in gay comps with loads of peels and options to reset.

Resilience is just a crap stat and until there is a reason to use it as an offensive stat it will be deprioritised by not only rogues but other classes also.
Charr3d
Charr3d Dec 28, 2008 at 1:42 pm
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If it's via a set bonus there is no way that people will won't be using it anymore.
I'd even consider saying making it a bonus if you get 8/8 PVP gear or so, thus leaving very few options to swap to PVE gear. Hell, make it a bonus that also requires 1 PVP ring & PVP necklace or something, just leave no option at all for any PVE gear expect maby 1 ring, trinkets & weapons.

I'm talking about bit numberrs on the setbonus here.
Something in the lines of: reduces damage taken by 30% and healing taken by 20%
There will simply be no player that would sacrifice 30% damage reduction on ALL damage just for a bit more AP or whatever.
If they still do, people will notice after 1 game and zerg the **** out of him.
Subparbdf
Subparbdf Dec 28, 2008 at 2:32 pm
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Cheat death was a big part of that. With damage scaling even more rogues will be able to use some pve gear, yes. All classes can use some pve gear. However without the safety net of cheat death will rogues really risk dieing in a KS/Hammer for that bit of offensive edge they recieve from pve gear?

It will sure as hell be better than the 100 resil rogues are rocking now.
Arirang
Arirang Dec 28, 2008 at 11:59 am
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Hmm, okay. I guess it's much harder to coordinate it than being it said done. But I'm sure it can be done. Anything that can be, will be done among some players.
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