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by Yataaah, Level 9
Last updated at November 27, 2009, 8:29 am
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Rogues: The Past, The Present And The Future?
The Past:
I myself have been a Rogue player ever since April 2005. I started out as a young Undead Rogue, I remember my friend telling me about WoW and how cool it was. The mention of fighting against a “Level 500 Dragon”, the massive raids etc. It was someting I never before had experienced in a game. He told me something about the races and I immediately became attracted to an Undead, a Rogue was always my type of character so that was a fast pick. From here on, my adventure started.
I’ve also been a long-time Diablo2 player, and also in this game, I was attracted to the PvP aspect, which was compared to WoW, real crap. It was therefore not long before I reached my lower 20’s on my Rogue. My friend told me of a place called “Duskwood”, and how the graveyard in that zone was seemingly crawling with alliance all of the time. We set on a journey through the harsh lands of Stranglethorn Vale. I remember the epic feeling of really stealthing through a whole zone, the slow walking, seeing an Alliance character passing us while we were hiding in the bushes, I had never experienced the true feeling of a rogue like this before. Miraculously, we made it without so much as a scratch all the way from Grom’gol to the Scourge invested graveyard in Duskwood. This is place where almost 4 and a half years ago my PvP love for this game started. I literally camped the graveyard zone for over 1 week, fulltime. Many wise looking gnomes were brutally slaughtered by my newly poisoned daggers. Many righteous human fell to a swiftly thrust dagger into their back. The rush of adrenaline after a fresh kill, and the bitter escape that came from me after seeing several “Skull” Alliance characters scouring the graveyard for that filthy Undead assassin is something that will forever stay one of the best and most fun experiences in the game for me.
It was not long after that period that me and my friend rerolled to the Alliance and I went forth and played an oh so noble Human Rogue. I levelled this character to 60 and enjoyed many, many and many AB’s and WSG’s. The eventual epic AV grind to my first epic dagger, and me joining my first “raiding” guild not so long after that. As time went on I was a full epic T2 Rogue, rocking the beautiful Chromatically Tempered Sword as one of the first on my server. The sword is still, and will ever be sitting gently in my bank as a relic of times past. With my full T2 gear and an awesome sword for those days, I went the classic Hemo spec and pretty much killed everything in a simple stunlock, there was not much that could touch my glory in those days. Sadly, those days went by far too fast.
TBC was on the horizon and I levelled a Shammy. Enhancement for the whole expansion. Getting beat up time and time again by those ShS rogues, especially the ones with dual glaives, oh how I missed my rogue. I had an Orc Rogue on the side with decent arena gear, but since my Shammy was already in the best of the best gear, I stuck with him. Looking back at this era, Rogues were truly shining here. We really stood out from the rest in terms of what we could bring to a team.
The Present:
We are now in WOTLK, I’m still a diehard PvP fan, but I never took Arena that far before as the top players. I achieved decent ratings, such as 2.3k in 2’s recently with a Destro Lock. Looking back on all this, I’m really starting to wonder, in which direction is Blizzard going with Rogues? Yes, we are still a very powerful class, but the way we work at the moment, and the way Blizzard is “kind of” forcing our talents, I’m confused, especially compared to how we started out in the 60 days.
Lets take a look at some points that got me wondering:
In WOTLK, poisons play a more prominent factor in the performance of the rogue class then ever. Blizzard is forcing us more and more to go for deadly poison. Why are we forced to use a poison that is so devastating for our own CC’s? Blind? Gouge?
Like discussed many times before, why is the Rogue class forced to use a 41 point talent to be the most successful with in PvP? Yes, we can take other specs, but those have proved to be far less effective, while all other classes are rocking their 51 pointers.
Now, lets take a look at Rogue survivability. We are a class that relies much on our stealth ability, the moment we come out, we become vulnerable. The spec most of us play now, has preparation. This ability allows us to survive a bit longer, but still, I sometimes have to blow Prep just so I can finally get a clean vanish off.
They fix vanish and they immediately revert the change, this was a sad moment for the Rogue community. Our Cloak of Shadows ability is very powerful indeed, but it only lasts 5 seconds and is on a 1 minute cooldown. It is not a rare sight to have a DoT on me 1 second after I used CLOS. With CLOS and vanish on cooldown, what is the Rogue supposed to do? We are so easily kited these days that effective cooldown management is very hard, and in longer matches, almost not possible. I myself actually have a ridiculous amount of resilience for a Rogue, 964 to be exact, coupled with the 6% DR from Assassination, I actually still got globalled by a Wizard Cleave, 28K HP (Priest buffed), gone in a second.
The way Rogues have to spec at the moment, forces us to drop some of our key damaging abilities, we are already missing out the top of our Assassination tree, and now we have to drop points from DW spec. Most Rogues also choose to drop some points out of Lethality, while not adding a very big boost in damage, it is in fact an extra bit of burst for Rogues. It is also not practical to get 3/3 Find Weakness, we need our 6% DR. With the upcoming poison buff, this leaves us very little points to pump into offensive abilities.
We are forced to use poison that breaks our CC’s, and we can not spec for full offensive power anymore. We are easily kited, and cooldowns are becoming less reliant and are easily outmanoeuvred by decent players. Let me make this clear though, the Rogue is STILL a very powerful class, and is a good addition to most arena teams. But, we are becoming such easy targets, with most other classes bringing a MS effect and being a harder target to kill, can we still claim our arena spot?
The Future?
Our damage feels a bit behind, and we are using poisons that makes it harder for us to lockdown our own target. This really gets me thinking in what direction Blizzard is taking Rogues? Most classes have some sort of talent / spell / passive effect / glyph that does not break their own CC because of DoTs, isn’t it time for Rogues to receive the same?
In PvP we were the master of locking down a target, we still are very good at that. But if you compare our PvE damage to our PvP performance, the amount of damage other classes can pull of in PvP compared to the beloved Rogue class, seems to be much higher. When I pull off a 2K Evis crit on plate, I really feel forced to spec Envenom, especially with so many plate cleave teams around. Of course I tried HFB in 3's, but without prep, I become a real easy target.
Now, where do you want to see Rogues going? More poisons, or do you finally want to use your 51 pointers? What do you think about your Rogues strengths and weaknesses at the moment? What direction do you think Blizzard will take us? Do you have any suggestions?
As I've been wondering about all this lately, I would very much like to see a discussion, from the points of view of other Rogues, but also the point of view from other classes. Do you still see the Rogue as a real threat?
Pom.

Besides, looking at it from a lore perspective, rogues are supposed to be squishy (we defenetly are) but with high mobility and damage. Well forget the mobility, even a warrior has better mobility than us. Our damage isn't bad but when you compare it to other classes it's pretty low.
I still really enjoy my rogue, but like I mentioned im confused about the direction Blizzard is taking them. (Hence the discussion here.. hehe
When I played wow, I chose rogue because convention holds that rogue>mage>warrior>mage (at least in 1v1). This was true when I started at 5 yrs ago, and was mostly true for a long time.
By the time I left at season 5, it was the opposite some how. Can not say I was sad to go.
No DW Spec,
No full points in lethality.
No 3/3 Find Weakness.
Of course you could discuss that you should just take other talents then, but I just feel like even though we basically good 1 general PvP choice, I cant even optimize my spec here.
And i smell like a rogue
but sometimes i like to smell like a different smelling rogue.
Point is. Rogues need a variety of sense.
So WoM makes a variety of sense.
But i dont use them
because im a warrior
Just kidding. Im not a warrior.
I use all of them
Because......im a rogue
and i feel all your joys in vanilla and bc, but also all your pain currently in wotlk.
i stopped playing around the end of season 4 in BC. but even then i some how fore saw this events that have come to pass in wotlk. and i am truly saddened. yes rogue is a powerful class BUT only if you take the time and dedication to practice and learn and adapt your moves to other classes and situations. from the beginning of WOW only those who took the time could call themselves true rogues. and i am proud to say i am a rogue. always have and always will be. never played any other class as much a my rogue. never leveled any other class past level 50.
even tho i have been out of the game for a long time, i still keep up to date on my brethren by reading forums, blogs, researching videos, etc. thats why i can say i still feel all your pain.
like i said i am sad atm. but even with all our predicaments and challenges we now face, we are still the number one hated class. thanks to all our brethren that take the time to fully learn our hidden jutsu.( LOL ) and i love the hate. this is my advise to all that still play rogue. use the hate.it will make you stronger. just like darth vader. ( LOL again )
now i can only hope blizzard will take notice and bring back our glory days. i really do.
thats all i can really say. pvp is so pathetic right now. its all burst no skill. get good gear roll any class besides rogue or warrior and roll your face on your keyboard.
now i am currently working on getting my account back.but it seems the fates are against me as i have found out it has been hacked. (boohoo) but i will come back.
now my final words to all my fellow rogues, keep your chin up, shoulders back, our day will come.
i promise this. wait for me.
and thanks again for your blog Pom. lets hope this will reach blizzards ears.
-rogue for life
Aku (Frostwolf BG9 Bloodlust)
Like you I always played a rogue, although a bit more on the side in TBC /shy, but yeah we are having it a bit harder at the moment, and of course, we are not giving up
Its actually fun, I really hate meeting other rogues in arena, but its not because of their damage though.. There is always a personal competition between rogues, which also makes it fun on the other hand.
I have a rogue, and the first character I ever leveled up to 60 was a rogue, I Didn't really play a rogue in TBC, I played other classes, but during this period, I always felt that rogue were one of the better classes in the game, they had very nice mobility compared to other classes with good mobility, they had Healing Debuff, and their damage was decent. Wrath is on the horison, and I felt that blizzard was giving rogues much love during the past, so I decided to level up a undead rogue, as my 3rd rogue, which soon became my new main, and today is my best geared / progressed character. After this, I leveled up a 2nd Paladin, and a 2nd warlock. What I mean by saing "2nd and 3rd" etc, is that it's my second or 3rd character since I started playing wow, I obviously dont own the first character of respective classes. Today, I own a UD Rogue, a Belf pally & a UD Warlock. And during all time wow, Ive played about 5 or 6 different classes.
One of the reasons I leveled up a warlock during wrath, as a 3rd character, I was tired of my rogue, much like the OP seems to be. Where blizzard is taking us seems to be undefined, and from many aspects, the class seems to be behind many other classes, not all, but comapred to the strongest classes in this game, Rogues are in many ways weak, and in some ways very powerful. A experienced and skillful player, easily know how to take advantage of a rogues "weak spots", Thus resulting in playing a rogue at a decent to high skill level within arena, becomes very frustrating at times.
Like the OP Mentioned above, Rogues are very powerful in certain situations, take BG's for example, I can easily stunlock a cloth user from 100% to 0%, but most of the players inside bg's are more often then not, bad geared, and when I say bad geared, I compare them to state of the art arena/bg gear, versus what the respective player is using at that moment.
Duels is a differtent story like the OP said, while a skillful rogue can beat many classes, depending on how the duel goes, and having a 50-50 against many classes, I for example beat most mages, but the average rogue doesn't. I can beat decent dk's, warriors, priests, hunters and maybe a few more classes. But the story for the average rogue, and what I mean by the average rogue is, the cusual player who plays rogue, the one that fit's into the Category "$$$$$ For Blizzard", does not seem to cope very well against most classes in this game.
Rogue at moderately to high level in arena, for me, is very frustrating, I dont consider my self the best player, To be modest, I am probably within gladiator range on Cyclone-EU (I dont play my rogue atm). I like pvp, and I am competative by nature, but the way the rogue class works right now at higher skill levels within arena, is just way to frustrating and boring in it's current state.
Rogues can CC targets by stunlocking, and like OP said, we are still very good at that, but most classes with decent gear, and some classes with stun reducing talents, tends to cope very well against stunlocks. And to say the least, once we are out of stunlocks, evasion and failed vanishes, we become free kill target's, Cloak is a very good talent, specialy against magic debuff's, but sometimes, this cd has to be used offensive, just to allow rogues to be able to stay on your target, very relative ability, that works different in sitaution to situation, and like I said, nowhere a bad ability, but counting it as a Defensive cooldown, is very dependable on how the fight plays out, and not always reliable.
Rogue mobility is not good, once you get slowed, we have to blow 3 minute cooldowns in order to cope with the movement impairment effects. Our damage is good, but not good comopared to warriors, and im comparing our damage with warrios because they are a MS class, Rogue's are too, warriors are melee, rogues are aswell. In many ways, rogues and warriors have similar tendencies, and in many ways not, but it's the most comparable class in my opinion, and when comparing damage vs this class, I can safely say we are way behind. Rogues is a MS class, and our damage should not be equal to NON MS Debuff classes, And the damage is decent, it's just that some classes are way to powerful, and when comparing rogues to them, we seem weak.
This reply is becoming relatively big, so I am gonna stop now, Ill just end it by saying, I dont play my rogue anymore, related to most of the points I've pointed out above, and when playing my warlcoks, I feel destroying rogues is a fungame, and I do it with relative ease. My holy paladin barely taeks damage from rogues due to sacred shield becoming a effectively anti rogue ability, destroying rogues as holy or ret is not even close to a fair fight for the rogue. And Im basing this on equally skilled player vs oponent.
/out
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