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by Hazek, Level 17
Last updated at October 27, 2009, 3:28 pm

There are certain things that you must understand before you begin to read this.  Everything contained within this paper is my belief and understanding alone.  It is a compilation of knowledge that I have gained through my experiences and own research.

Everything is debatable in life, and nothing can be proven to those who are unwilling to open their minds, and transcend old beliefs.  If you are unwilling to let go of what you have been conditioned to believe, then there is no point in reading this, because you will simply try to debate and validate the information expressed.  This does not mean that you have to agree with every piece of information you come across, it just means that you should consider everything, without letting your “scientist” mind get in the way of always trying to be right.  THE ONLY REAL TRUTH YOU WILL EVER FIND, COMES FROM WITHIN YOURSELF, OTHER SOURCES WILL ONLY HINT AT IDEAS THAT YOU RESONATE WITH, AND FEEL ARE IMPORTANT.

 

Information contained – God, god, existence, life, reality, dimensions, spirit, consciousness, free will, action, being, belief, separation, history, and anything else that I think of.

 

First.  What is god?  GOD IS THE SOURCE OF ALL, AND IS CONTAINED WITHIN EVERYTHING IN EXISTENCE, WE ARE GOD, YOU ARE GOD, I AM GOD.  “Things” do not come from “no-thing” they are created.  All is creation.  Think of it like a really really really big family tree, in which everything in the universe is connected.  From my understanding, the highest “gods” are universes themselves.  These gods create life, then those creations create other things, etc.  That is why are are all one, and why the source is contained within everything, including us.  Another example is fractals.  Everything is a fractal.  EVERY ATOM CONTAINS THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE BECAUSE OF THIS FRACTAL NATURE OF EXISTENCE.  So just understand that everything is a part of the original source, or god if you wish to call it that.

 

What am I?  I am a human, but not operating at my full potential.  I AM SPIRIT EXPERIENCING A LOWER DIMENSIONAL REALITY IN A PHYSICAL VEHICLE.

We are all spirit, it is a part of who you are.  Your spirit, or higher self is your ultimate guide, and the true “you”.  It is the part of you that understands everything, and contains the memories of every life that you have lived, and every experience that you’ve been through.  It is the ultimate source of truth.  We are human beings, we are vast multidimensional beings with a large understanding of existence when operating at our full potential.  So why do we still only use 2% of our brains? and why cant we detect our spiritual self if it is truly a part of who we are?  We originally CHOSE to come here on earth in order to bring love, light, and the higher vibrations, to a dense and harsh environment.  Yes, it was a choice, by all of us.  At birth you created yourself, then chose to forget everything and be blindfolded.  Which is why we have to remember who we are.  We are currently operating on 2 strands of DNA, instead of the original 12.  Scientists have discovered the other 10 strands of DNA, but they say they are “junk DNA” because they are currently dormant and need to be rebuilt, but they don’t understand the true potential.  That is why we can only use 2-4% of our brain, instead of 100%.  If we are amazing beings now, imagine what is possible when operating at 100%.  So why are we only operating off 2 strands?  Long story short, a highly evolved race of beings who are master geneticists decided to disconnect 10 strands so that we are easier to control as a species. 

Earth is also very sacred.  Consciousness is contained within EVERYTHING.  Mother Earth is a loving being who chose to be our home for this experiment.  She provides everything for us, yet some humans show a lack of respect, and even hurt her.  She does not deserve this, we should be thanking her every single day with pure unconditional love.  She loves us unconditionally, and so should we.  Going green wont do anything, you cannot simply hurt the earth less, you have to totally change everything.  But we are too far in the mud, there has to be a landslide before trees can begin to grow.  Going green is like punching someone in the face twice a day, then telling them “oh sorry that probably hurts, I’ll only punch you once a day from now on”.  Going green is the governments way tricking the public into thinking that they are actually helping the earth, which is absurd.  The people currently in political power and financial power are afraid to lose what they have, so they control the masses through negative media such as television, radio, and movies.  When you see things like swine flu and terror alerts, they just want to be afraid, because then you act based on that fear, and you take precautions such as flu shots, or you go buy “anti terrorist kits”…. I’m surprised they havnt come up with something that ridiculous yet.  But people like me can see through that bull****.  Also when you are afraid, you are easier to control, which is what those in power intend to do… control you.  It is what they HAVE been doing.  Don’t you see?  What do most people do every single day… they go to work, they come home to their box like architecture (which blocks energy flow, shapes are very important when it comes to your living space, but I wont get into that yet), then they go back to work… then they come home and say to themselves “why do I work when I hate my job, and my life is boring, and there is no purpose”.  It is because of how the government controls society.  When you go to work, you are a slave.  There is no emotion in what you do (for some people), so you hate it, and then you make money which you have to FORCEFULLY GIVE TO THE GOVERNMENT.  THEY DO NOT PROTECT US, WE CAN SURVIVE WITHOUT THEIR LAWS.  THEY ONLY INTEND TO CONTROL US, AND ANY BEING WHO INTENDS TO CONTROL OR KEEP YOU UNINFORMED, IS NOT A BEING THAT YOU SHOULD WORK WITH.  They have also been lying to us, and showing us fake pictures from space.  There is so much intelligent life in the universe, to believe otherwise is absurd in my opinion.  Those in “power” have been in contact with some of these beings, and not all of them have good intentions.  Just because a being has a higher understanding, does not mean that they have good intentions and that you should work with them.  YOU SHOULD ALWAYS USE YOUR INTUITION OR HIGHER SELF TO DISCERN TRUTH.  ALWAYS BE SKEPTICAL, BUT DO NOT CLOSE YOURSELF OFF COMPLETELY TO ANY NEW INFORMATION.

 

LOVE YOURSELF UNCONDITIONALLY, LOVE EVERYTHING UNCONDITIONALLY, AND BY THE LAW OF ATTRACTION, THAT IS WHAT YOU WILL ATTRACT.  DO NOT SUCCUMB TO FEAR, SIMPLY OBSERVE IT IF IT ARISES.  ACT ON JOY, PASSION, AND BLISSFUL EMOTION.  BE HUMBLE, SINCERE, KIND, AND LOVING TO ALL, REGARDLESS OF THEIR IMAGE OR PHYSICAL BODY.  LEAD BY EXAMPLE AND THOSE AROUND YOU WILL RECOGNIZE IT, EVEN IF THEY DON’T CONSCIOUSLY UNDERSTAND IT.  DO NOT DWELL ON THINGS YOU DO NOT WANT TO EXIST, SIMPLY FORGET THEM AND LIVE WHAT YOU DESIRE.

The law of attraction is simple.  What you send out is what you receive.  Everything is vibration.  Our eyes and ears can pick up specific frequencies, and anything out of that range is not detectable by our 5 senses, but it still exists.  Everything vibrating above the visible light spectrum is invisible to the eyes, but can still be perceived.  When you feel a certain way, you are within that vibration.  For instance, when you express love and joy to others, then they will resonate with your current vibration.  That is why some places instantly feel good or bad when you walk in.  The objects in the room are vibrating at a certain frequency.  Karma is similar... go go golden rule.  Since we are all connected, what you do to others, you do to yourself.

Respond as you will.  This is not about gaming but I felt the need to post it somewhere.  Hopefully someone has a better understanding of existence that I can learn from.

     
65 comments
Qlimaxx
Qlimaxx Oct 27, 2009 at 3:32 pm
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Didn't read any of it, but I know what it's about. You forgot to credit Stephane Hemon from ideagasms.net..(BIGTIME). He's really great at analyzing life and how to be a better human being, personally I can apply what I read from him in many every day situations so it's good that someone is sharing this.
What it MISSES in my opinion is, that everyone ends up analyzing the **** out of their life and other lives and forgets to apply humor and irony, to be a funnier human being. It's all about fixing issues and releasing guilt and sin etc.. apply humor ^^
Hazek
Hazek Oct 27, 2009 at 3:47 pm
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I agree, humor is very important.  I havn't looked at that site yet but I will check it out.  All information should be shared regardless of the source, and I am simply sharing what I understand and have learned from many sources.  I do not intend to be right or wrong.
Pho
Pho Oct 27, 2009 at 3:37 pm
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There are a lot of great things based of laws of attraction. 

Some of your stuff sounds very similar to Esther/Anthony Hicks, check them out.
likwitsnake
likwitsnake Oct 27, 2009 at 4:12 pm
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You've overplayed the subjectivity hand; might I suggest you somewhat divorce yourself from the material and try to look at these complicated questions through a different lens?

At any rate, good thoughts from a great hunter.
KuroRP
KuroRP Oct 27, 2009 at 4:21 pm
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My child, you have struck a chord with me. This chord vibrates at such a frequency that it forces me to feel emotion towards you.

This chord is Christ (our savior).

You say the only real truth comes from with yourself. While this is true, it is not complete. Our Lord created the heavens and earth, he created life as we see it, and life as we don't. He is within us and also within everything connected to us. That is truth. And it starts with our Lord.

You say you are a spiritual being Hazek, but your soul is still clouded, poluted by this "science" modern athiests cling to with such desperation. Those dormant "strands of DNA" are not strands in the sense that you use them. They are long sequences of nucleotide bases found within our 2 strands of DNA that no longer code for amino acids. Those dormant sequences were put there by the Lord to remind us that we are not perfect, and that we must turn to Christ (our savior) instead of eachother for answers to life's questions. "Scientists" ignore this, instead linking the dormant strains to a demonic entity they call "evolution" but do not be taken in by their fancy words and flawed logic. We did not "evolve" from retarded monkeys, we were created in our Lord's image, and we must thank him every waking moment for this enormous gift.

And not every atom contains the entire universe. Every atom contains our Lord who in turn encompasses the entire universe, but this is not direct, and you could not hope to recreate the universe from a constituent part as you have mentioned - only our Lord has the power to create universes, do not hope to step on his turf. 

Your concept of "vibration" is also flawed, but I cannot at this moment correct you, for it is now time for my hourly praise.

I will include your name in my prayers Hazek. You are half way there, you must now completely reject "science" and accept Christ (our savior) as your personal savior if you ever hope to reach the truth.

Go in peace.
Trxitor
Trxitor Oct 27, 2009 at 5:12 pm
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KuroRP
KuroRP Oct 27, 2009 at 5:27 pm
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Trxitor said
SIGH, get out
There will be time when I will get out. Get out of my physical form and ascend to the Heavens to embrace Christ (our savior).

Now is not that time however.
Trxitor
Trxitor Oct 27, 2009 at 5:28 pm
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Man i hope ur a troll, seriously.
KuroRP
KuroRP Oct 27, 2009 at 5:32 pm
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Trxitor said
Man i hope ur a troll, seriously.
You hope I'm a troll? Does the prospect of eternal damnation frighten you so much that you seek to dismiss all descriptions of the Truth as mere trolling? 

Cling to your "science" while you can Trxitor, it will make your final realisation all the more grandiose. Moments before you descend.
bilingue
bilingue Oct 27, 2009 at 5:41 pm
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KuroRP said
My child, you have struck a chord with me. This chord vibrates at such a frequency that it forces me to feel emotion towards you.

This chord is Christ (our savior).

You say the only real truth comes from with yourself. While this is true, it is not complete. Our Lord created the heavens and earth, he created life as we see it, and life as we don't. He is within us and also within everything connected to us. That is truth. And it starts with our Lord.

You say you are a spiritual being Hazek, but your soul is still clouded, poluted by this "science" modern athiests cling to with such desperation. Those dormant "strands of DNA" are not strands in the sense that you use them. They are long sequences of nucleotide bases found within our 2 strands of DNA that no longer code for amino acids. Those dormant sequences were put there by the Lord to remind us that we are not perfect, and that we must turn to Christ (our savior) instead of eachother for answers to life's questions. "Scientists" ignore this, instead linking the dormant strains to a demonic entity they call "evolution" but do not be taken in by their fancy words and flawed logic. We did not "evolve" from retarded monkeys, we were created in our Lord's image, and we must thank him every waking moment for this enormous gift.

And not every atom contains the entire universe. Every atom contains our Lord who in turn encompasses the entire universe, but this is not direct, and you could not hope to recreate the universe from a constituent part as you have mentioned - only our Lord has the power to create universes, do not hope to step on his turf. 

Your concept of "vibration" is also flawed, but I cannot at this moment correct you, for it is now time for my hourly praise.

I will include your name in my prayers Hazek. You are half way there, you must now completely reject "science" and accept Christ (our savior) as your personal savior if you ever hope to reach the truth.

Go in peace.
I heart u
TeeKoo
TeeKoo Oct 27, 2009 at 5:54 pm
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I honestly can't understand how can people still belive in god, tho whole idea and lack of proof should be too much for anyone to actually take it seriously. I don't judge people who have been brainwashed by their parents since birth and people who just seeked some solace after their loved one died and the first guy who offered help happened to be a religious person.

The ones I judge are religious people that are over the age of 20 and who have a decent education and some kind of social life. That just doesn't make sense to me. To me they are delusional kids that haven't grown up.

If you are a troll, you just trolled me succesfully, but honestly religion should be banned from the world.
Qlimaxx
Qlimaxx Oct 27, 2009 at 6:02 pm
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Know vs. Believe:
It's kind of ignorant to put a belief down because of lack of facts. The whole point is that you don't know it - you just believe. The reason you believe, is that you understand that you cannot explain the world/universe as it is, or its creation. And that's enough reason for you to understand that you don't "know" - therefore you can "believe".
TeeKoo
TeeKoo Oct 27, 2009 at 6:05 pm
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It's kind of ignorant to put a belief down because of lack of facts.

In my world that is exactly why I would put belief/religion down, not to mention the absurd story book named bible.

"You just have to belive" sounds like an excuse.
KuroRP
KuroRP Oct 27, 2009 at 7:03 pm
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TeeKoo said
It's kind of ignorant to put a belief down because of lack of facts.

In my world that is exactly why I would put belief/religion down, not to mention the absurd story book named bible.

"You just have to belive" sounds like an excuse.
TeeKoo, oh sweet Teekoo, how you have been misled.

Your path through life is not unique, you follow indented paths through the system to gain money and purchase goods. To what end, my child? To what do you attribute your worth, your soul?

You put down belief/religion because it scares you TeeKoo, because the prospect of there being an essence larger than yourself, larger than your material goods, larger than the universe itself - it would mean you have effectively wasted your life in the pursuit of nothing. But you have not wasted your life, my child. If you open your eyes to the Truth and accept Christ (our savior) and all his loving tendrils into your heart, your life will not have been forfeit. Your life would have been in learning what is true and what is pushed upon us by propagators of this so-called "science". 

You say there are a lack of facts. Look around you Teekoo. This world we occupy during our physical time is proof in itself. The absolute perfection in every blade of grass and every bolt of lightning. This is proof TeeKoo. This is Truth.

I will ignore your blasphemous comments about the Bible.

Go in peace.
Hazek
Hazek Oct 28, 2009 at 2:13 pm
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KuroRP said
TeeKoo, oh sweet Teekoo, how you have been misled.

Your path through life is not unique, you follow indented paths through the system to gain money and purchase goods. To what end, my child? To what do you attribute your worth, your soul?

You put down belief/religion because it scares you TeeKoo, because the prospect of there being an essence larger than yourself, larger than your material goods, larger than the universe itself - it would mean you have effectively wasted your life in the pursuit of nothing. But you have not wasted your life, my child. If you open your eyes to the Truth and accept Christ (our savior) and all his loving tendrils into your heart, your life will not have been forfeit. Your life would have been in learning what is true and what is pushed upon us by propagators of this so-called "science". 

You say there are a lack of facts. Look around you Teekoo. This world we occupy during our physical time is proof in itself. The absolute perfection in every blade of grass and every bolt of lightning. This is proof TeeKoo. This is Truth.

I will ignore your blasphemous comments about the Bible.

Go in peace.
That perfection in nature comes from intelligent design and sacred geometry.  Everything has a geometric pattern and a number system.  Plants grow in accordance with the fibonacci spiral.  Water flows in a specific pattern, it is not random.  I believe you are also on a partial path of truth KuroRP, but your church is corrupting your pure intention to discover spirit.  You should be skeptical of all information, including the bible.  I do not intend to put down your beliefs as incorrect, but you must consider this... The present day bible you cling to as ultimate truth, has been edited by many sources.  It is not the ORIGINAL bible.  Some parts may be untruthful, or completely cut out of the bible itself.  That is not to say that the bible contains no truth, but you must discern what is correct, instead of blindly following the teachings of one book because a church tells you to.  The source of all (god, magenta, lord etc) does not want to be worshiped, it wants us to recognize that it is within all of us.  It does not punish us for "incorrect" beliefs.  Heaven and hell exist on earth, and that reality is a reflection of your actions and beliefs.  I take the time to read and consider your responses, so I hope you do the same.  Much love and light

Do you not gain money to purchase goods? 
Money itself is not bad.  It is how you gain, then use that money.
KuroRP
KuroRP Oct 28, 2009 at 4:18 pm
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Hazek said
That perfection in nature comes from intelligent design and sacred geometry.  Everything has a geometric pattern and a number system.  Plants grow in accordance with the fibonacci spiral.  Water flows in a specific pattern, it is not random.  I believe you are also on a partial path of truth KuroRP, but your church is corrupting your pure intention to discover spirit.  You should be skeptical of all information, including the bible.  I do not intend to put down your beliefs as incorrect, but you must consider this... The present day bible you cling to as ultimate truth, has been edited by many sources.  It is not the ORIGINAL bible.  Some parts may be untruthful, or completely cut out of the bible itself.  That is not to say that the bible contains no truth, but you must discern what is correct, instead of blindly following the teachings of one book because a church tells you to.  The source of all (god, magenta, lord etc) does not want to be worshiped, it wants us to recognize that it is within all of us.  It does not punish us for "incorrect" beliefs.  Heaven and hell exist on earth, and that reality is a reflection of your actions and beliefs.  I take the time to read and consider your responses, so I hope you do the same.  Much love and light

Do you not gain money to purchase goods? 
Money itself is not bad.  It is how you gain, then use that money.
Hazek, my child, it seems I have been mistaken. You are not half way there as I had thought, your journey has barely begun. You make assumptions about my religious grounding, but I have not once mentioned my church or the Bible or their influence on my acceptance of the Truth. Whether you like to admit it or not, this incessant need for extracting parabolas where none are to be found is a consequence of pollution. Pollution of your mind by a system of artificial cause and effect integrated into your sense of reality through years of "science" classes and inadequate teachers barely qualified to change their own diapers. You absorbed all of their sterile misinformation like a sponge in a sea of cow excrement, and no amount of twisting and wringing will rid your mind of their gooey influence. 

This perfection in nature is indeed intelligently designed, but the sacred geometry you speak of is not accidental. It was placed in multiple unconnected systems by our Lord to give the world some form of consistency. And these patterns are everywhere if you just open your eyes to see them.

I do gain money, and I do purchase goods. These acts are not evil and I never implied they were. My point was that people who do not accept Christ (our savior) as their personal savior live their lives solely for the purpose of achieving wealth and then inserting that wealth back into the system. That is their goal.

Those who see the truth as I do, and as I had once thought you did, we acquire wealth to help achieve our goals, and not as a goal in itself.

I hope you see the error in your ways Hazek, and know that you will be in my prayers.

Go in peace.
Hazek
Hazek Oct 29, 2009 at 10:51 pm
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KuroRP said
Hazek, my child, it seems I have been mistaken. You are not half way there as I had thought, your journey has barely begun. You make assumptions about my religious grounding, but I have not once mentioned my church or the Bible or their influence on my acceptance of the Truth. Whether you like to admit it or not, this incessant need for extracting parabolas where none are to be found is a consequence of pollution. Pollution of your mind by a system of artificial cause and effect integrated into your sense of reality through years of "science" classes and inadequate teachers barely qualified to change their own diapers. You absorbed all of their sterile misinformation like a sponge in a sea of cow excrement, and no amount of twisting and wringing will rid your mind of their gooey influence. 

This perfection in nature is indeed intelligently designed, but the sacred geometry you speak of is not accidental. It was placed in multiple unconnected systems by our Lord to give the world some form of consistency. And these patterns are everywhere if you just open your eyes to see them.

I do gain money, and I do purchase goods. These acts are not evil and I never implied they were. My point was that people who do not accept Christ (our savior) as their personal savior live their lives solely for the purpose of achieving wealth and then inserting that wealth back into the system. That is their goal.

Those who see the truth as I do, and as I had once thought you did, we acquire wealth to help achieve our goals, and not as a goal in itself.

I hope you see the error in your ways Hazek, and know that you will be in my prayers.

Go in peace.
You may be right.  Though I understand the false conditioning of my mind through school and my environment, I still believe I have a large understanding of universal truth.  There may still be untruthful ideas lingering within though.  You keep saying "accept Christ our savior".

What exactly is accepting christ?
What is your understanding and definition of our lord?

The reason why I implied that your source of information is from a church, is because churches tend to teach... "God is a masculine figure refered to as HE, and if you disobey him and do not bow down as if you are not equal, then you will be punished.  Accept Jesus into your life and you will be fulfilled and joyus"  That seems to be the trend anyway.  Maybe I misinterpreted your words.

I strongly believe that god is within us all.  I prefer to refer to god as the source.  It is both masculine and feminine.  We contain pieces of the original source (god) which means that we are all creator gods.  My understanding of Jesus, otherwise known as Lord Sananda (his oversoul), is that he is a very highly evolved being.  He is a christed being just like buddha, st. germain, etc. He may have manifested here on earth within a few different physical bodies to teach people that WE ARE EQUAL TO HIM AND GOD.  Jesus would not want us to bow at his feet.  There is technology that exists in the universe that can project false realities (like movies but seem very real in the third dimension, like a hologram).  It is a possibility that his crucifixion did not actually happen, and was only used to affect the masses.
gottodisagree
gottodisagree Oct 27, 2009 at 11:30 pm
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TeeKoo said
It's kind of ignorant to put a belief down because of lack of facts.

In my world that is exactly why I would put belief/religion down, not to mention the absurd story book named bible.

"You just have to belive" sounds like an excuse.
untill science reinvents itself and tells how nothing becomes something i'll believe in god.
i'm not part of any religion though, i just think it exists and doesnt interfere with anything
Neber
Neber Oct 27, 2009 at 10:26 pm
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I probably fit into the "should be delusional kid that haven't grown up" category, according to yourself. 

I quite like all the ideas of evolution, it does make a lot of sense, nearly or possibly just as much as "christianity does to me", which i've grown up with it. evolution is a huge puzzle to pieced together properly though.

The reason i believe in the whole christian god idea, is because it works, take apart all the emotion, fuzzy warm feelings, all the speaking in tongues etc,etc,etc. The central ideas of how to live, on this earth with other human beings in an acceptable way just makes sense, and seems entirely reasonable.
Xaeranth
Xaeranth Oct 27, 2009 at 4:33 pm
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"THE ONLY REAL TRUTH YOU WILL EVER FIND, COMES FROM WITHIN YOURSELF,
OTHER SOURCES WILL ONLY HINT AT IDEAS THAT YOU RESONATE WITH, AND FEEL
ARE IMPORTANT."

I was skeptical at first as the title of the blog totally had a "I just finished my first Philosophy 101 class and wanna share it with the world!" feel to it, but I stopped reading at this line as even someone with the most amateur understanding of philosophy knows that truth CAN'T come from "within" us because everything we know is learned through subjective means.
Iliekboyz
Iliekboyz Oct 27, 2009 at 6:46 pm
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"someone with the most amateur understanding of philosophy knows that
truth CAN'T come from "within" us because everything we know is learned
through subjective means.
"

I'm not a philosopher but wouldn't a sort of collective subjectivity be what we deem to be true?

We all observe **** from a subjective perspective (sick rhyme) and through comparison with other people's accounts of their subjective perspectives, make the assumption that everyone is observing relatively the same things, or the same truth, then infer certain things about x or y because of what we collectively observe, which transfers into learning and knowledge as a group.

We reinforce our individual subjective truths by comparing them to what the others around us also seem to be deeming true.

This kind of raises an idea of what we're defining truth as, because, objective truth must always be true without a conscious/subjective observer, something true shouldn't be dependent on someone observing it or having observed it, for it to be true.

E.g it is true that our sun exists. It would be true independent of us knowing it existed.

But in our case, we only have our own observations, and the subjective observations of others, to ascertain whether something is true or not, so it seems like subjective observation is a requirement for truth.

We know the sun exists because we all can see it in the sky.
We have complex rules for more intricate observations and to make predictions on our observations, but it comes down always to the fact that we deem something to be true, within ourselves.

Can we ever know objective truth, cause it seems like we can only ever interpret something subjectively?
Xaeranth
Xaeranth Oct 27, 2009 at 7:50 pm
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Iliekboyz said
"someone with the most amateur understanding of philosophy knows that
truth CAN'T come from "within" us because everything we know is learned
through subjective means.
"

I'm not a philosopher but wouldn't a sort of collective subjectivity be what we deem to be true?

We all observe **** from a subjective perspective (sick rhyme) and through comparison with other people's accounts of their subjective perspectives, make the assumption that everyone is observing relatively the same things, or the same truth, then infer certain things about x or y because of what we collectively observe, which transfers into learning and knowledge as a group.

We reinforce our individual subjective truths by comparing them to what the others around us also seem to be deeming true.

This kind of raises an idea of what we're defining truth as, because, objective truth must always be true without a conscious/subjective observer, something true shouldn't be dependent on someone observing it or having observed it, for it to be true.

E.g it is true that our sun exists. It would be true independent of us knowing it existed.

But in our case, we only have our own observations, and the subjective observations of others, to ascertain whether something is true or not, so it seems like subjective observation is a requirement for truth.

We know the sun exists because we all can see it in the sky.
We have complex rules for more intricate observations and to make predictions on our observations, but it comes down always to the fact that we deem something to be true, within ourselves.

Can we ever know objective truth, cause it seems like we can only ever interpret something subjectively?
There mere fact that we can't objectively prove that ANYTHING exists at all kind of rains on your parade of "we know the sun exists, therefore we can know something objective".
Iliekboyz
Iliekboyz Oct 27, 2009 at 8:26 pm
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I don't think i said that was the case? probably wasn't clear.

I think I wanted to emphasize the dissociation between subjective truth and objective truth.

You said truth can't come from within us, because of our subjective interpretation of everything, which must be correct.
But it's only objective truth that can't come from within us, the truth we rely on and seem to acknowledge on a day to day basis is subjective truth, which does come from within.

And while objective truth is the only 'real' truth, and subjective truth is essentially always 'made up' by our perception of the world, it still seems to me that we should make the distinction between the two, as both are equally valuable.

With respect to subjectivity, the op's statement (which you challenged), "THE ONLY REAL TRUTH YOU WILL EVER FIND, COMES FROM WITHIN YOURSELF" is true. Since your subjective experience is the only thing you can be 100% certain of. And if something is 100% certain, it is true. Meaning subjective experience is always true for the one experiencing it.

And since objective truth is unknowable and will always be subject to our subjective perception as you expressed, it seems that we need to have two distinct types of truth?
One which we can acknowledge (subjective) and a higher independent objective truth, which we have to believe exists outside of our perception.

Maybe this sort of thing has been fleshed out a thousand times and I'm making a redundant point, probably should study philosophy before getting into this i guess :)
Xaeranth
Xaeranth Oct 27, 2009 at 10:36 pm
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Because something is 100% certain to you, does not, in fact, make it true.

You are 100% certain that the color yellow is yellow, but it only appears yellow because of the way the light reflects off of said object, which works its way through the atmosphere to your eye for processing.

Because you see the color yellow and describe it as "yellow" does not, in fact, make it yellow.
Iliekboyz
Iliekboyz Oct 27, 2009 at 11:46 pm
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That is why i wanted to suggest that what the op said, 'real truth, you'll find within yourself' is correct, working under the premise that there is potential for two definitions of truth.

Neither of us will ever be capable of experiencing something objectively, so every time we deem something to be true, it is only true from our subjective perspective.

Since you only have your own perspective to consult, everything is true subjectively to yourself.

Objectivity is irrelevant when we can only make a comparison between another person's subjective account of truth and your own experience.

The fact that we both look at an object and deem it to be yellow has more merit than the fact that potentially what i may be seeing is actually a sensation of blue and you are seeing the real yellow. Since we both conclude it to be yellow subjectively, it is subjectively true that it is yellow.

It is not necessarily objectively true for both of us, that what we are seeing is yellow.
I may be experiencing the colour blue, when the object is actually objectively yellow. While you subjectively experience yellow and it is really objectively yellow.

That is not to say that it isn't true on some level that we both saw yellow, though.
'Yellow' is merely us prescribing a label to our perceptual experience of that wavelength of light.
So it is Subjectively true that we both saw yellow.
And in my case objectively false, as i actually saw blue when looking at a yellow object.

Do you see why it now seems necessary for two versions of truth?
Subjective truth guides us in every day situations, in observing things and making assumptions about things. It helps us to gain knowledge of our subjective world. 
This truth is the only truth we can really count on.

Maybe it's the case that our collective subjective understanding of the world allows us to make good assumptions about objective truths but we will never know.

Science is a good example, scientists make many observations and record the observations they make. Another scientist reads them, and does further research and makes further observations etc etc
This eventually amounts to a large number of subjective experiences recorded, which when considering them all allows us to possibly realize objective truths about the nature of the world.

But we have no way of determining whether these assumed objective truths are the real truths, or just subjective individual truths that we perceive.

It's the same problem we're faced with in the color scenario you proposed, we will never know whether we're seeing the 'objective color yellow' or whether it just appears to be 'yellow' to us subjectively.

I guess you could just say that everything we know is potentially untrue, and that things can only be objectively true, but it seems to make more sense to me to distinguish between objectivity and subjectivity instead. Cause if there only is objective truth, that gives potential for my subjective life and everything i perceive, to be entirely false or not exist at all :(
LagSpike
LagSpike Oct 28, 2009 at 2:05 am
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Wtf, then what does it make it if not yellow? Knowledge can be attained without experience, it's a fairly large part of Kantian philosophy(a priori analytical). Do you just walk around saying everything around you's imaginary? Have you never figured something out through practical, analytical thought?
Xaeranth
Xaeranth Oct 28, 2009 at 6:04 pm
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LagSpike said
Wtf, then what does it make it if not yellow? Knowledge can be attained without experience, it's a fairly large part of Kantian philosophy(a priori analytical). Do you just walk around saying everything around you's imaginary? Have you never figured something out through practical, analytical thought?
A Priori knowledge is knowledge that we deem true independently of our experience or subjectivity. It does not mean that the knowledge we experience is true. 2 + 2 = 4. There is no experience in your life that will ever change the fact that if you take what we know as 2 apples and place them in a bucket that also has 2 apples that you will have a number of apples totaling what we call 4.

And to answer your question about if I walk around saying everything is imaginary? No, of course I don't. BUT, it does not mean that everything around me ISN'T IMAGINARY.

Have you ever had a dream so real you thought it was absolutely real and that you weren't dreaming? Can you prove with 100% certainty that you are not dreaming right now? Can you prove with 100% certainty that you are not unconscious right now in some lab somewhere hooked up to a machine that is feeding you your "consciousness"? Can you prove that you are not immersed in some liquid right now while machines harvest energy from your body to live (the Matrix example). Can you with 100% certainty prove any of this? (Hint: you can't).

Yes, these are extreme/absurd examples, but the fact that you can't with 100% certainty deny or prove/disprove any of them means that logically you have to at least allow the possibility that there exists a circumstance where nothing you know is real at all.

Again, it doesn't mean that it is the case (and it more than likely isn't), but the argument can still logically be made.
LagSpike
LagSpike Oct 30, 2009 at 12:50 am
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Ya, I have. And I countered them by realizing you'll never prove them either, and they aren't exactly faith based so that system of thought isn't applied. They're good thoughts to keep yourself open minded but beyond that they're meaningless. Given any more merit and the logic should be tearing down any foundation of knowledge you have, at which point you should consider why you choose to keep living like you do(or living at all) if everything means nothing and nothing can mean everything.

Regardless, aliens did not disable 10 other strands of dna within me.
Hazek
Hazek Oct 28, 2009 at 2:01 pm
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Iliekboyz said
"someone with the most amateur understanding of philosophy knows that
truth CAN'T come from "within" us because everything we know is learned
through subjective means.
"

I'm not a philosopher but wouldn't a sort of collective subjectivity be what we deem to be true?

We all observe **** from a subjective perspective (sick rhyme) and through comparison with other people's accounts of their subjective perspectives, make the assumption that everyone is observing relatively the same things, or the same truth, then infer certain things about x or y because of what we collectively observe, which transfers into learning and knowledge as a group.

We reinforce our individual subjective truths by comparing them to what the others around us also seem to be deeming true.

This kind of raises an idea of what we're defining truth as, because, objective truth must always be true without a conscious/subjective observer, something true shouldn't be dependent on someone observing it or having observed it, for it to be true.

E.g it is true that our sun exists. It would be true independent of us knowing it existed.

But in our case, we only have our own observations, and the subjective observations of others, to ascertain whether something is true or not, so it seems like subjective observation is a requirement for truth.

We know the sun exists because we all can see it in the sky.
We have complex rules for more intricate observations and to make predictions on our observations, but it comes down always to the fact that we deem something to be true, within ourselves.

Can we ever know objective truth, cause it seems like we can only ever interpret something subjectively?
well said.  If an idea is presented that goes against the belief of the majority, then they will be viewed as insane.  Such as the idea of the earth being round, when people believed that it was flat simply because that's what the eyes perceived.  I strongly believe that truth comes from within, yet that ancient saying is very vague. 

It could have many meanings such as:
Literally closing your eyes and looking within?
Pursuing knowledge through inner desire?
Figuratively looking within yourself through meditation?
Instantly gaining a sense of knowing and information when ready? (through actions and state of being).

That is why each person will have a different understanding, even if the same information is presented.  Every person must unlock truth themselves.  Other sources only hint and direct you.
Martey
Martey Oct 27, 2009 at 7:58 pm
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I do believe Descartes would not agree.
V33
V33 Oct 27, 2009 at 4:54 pm
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"Have courage to use your own understanding!"--that is the motto of enlightenment.

- V
kyz
kyz Oct 27, 2009 at 5:07 pm
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The rest of the universe is doing just fine without humans. There is no point to our existence.
Riddler
Riddler Oct 27, 2009 at 5:12 pm
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you used to be such a great hunter.
Striker254
Striker254 Oct 27, 2009 at 5:41 pm
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It seems to me like your "understanding of existence" is based upon articles that you read in online blogs from people who have fallen off of the deep end mentally.  There are quite a few points that you made that are 100% BS, like your "12 strands of DNA" bit, or the "we chose to make ourselves when we were born".  Please know something about what you're talking about before posting your opinion for trusting individuals to be misled by.

We have 23 chromosomes, each of which is basically 1/2 from your mother and 1/2 from your father.  Each of these chromosomes is "double stranded" DNA.  The "10 strands" of junk DNA are just really long segments that are permanently deactivated in cells, and are no longer transcribed and translated into proteins.  Just go to any basic website about "DNA" instead of "how aliens control us through our DNA", and you'll get some accurate information... lol.

Maybe try reading more books instead of blogs.

For everyone reading this blog, 90% of this is crap, please disregard it.
Hazek
Hazek Oct 28, 2009 at 1:51 pm
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Striker254 said
It seems to me like your "understanding of existence" is based upon articles that you read in online blogs from people who have fallen off of the deep end mentally.  There are quite a few points that you made that are 100% BS, like your "12 strands of DNA" bit, or the "we chose to make ourselves when we were born".  Please know something about what you're talking about before posting your opinion for trusting individuals to be misled by.

We have 23 chromosomes, each of which is basically 1/2 from your mother and 1/2 from your father.  Each of these chromosomes is "double stranded" DNA.  The "10 strands" of junk DNA are just really long segments that are permanently deactivated in cells, and are no longer transcribed and translated into proteins.  Just go to any basic website about "DNA" instead of "how aliens control us through our DNA", and you'll get some accurate information... lol.

Maybe try reading more books instead of blogs.

For everyone reading this blog, 90% of this is crap, please disregard it.
Does your source of information contain more universal truth than mine?  The only way to validate information is through experience, and neither one of us have actually touched a strand of DNA.  So therefor we present information that we feel is truthful.  I get most of my information from books, videos, and rarely other people.  I have yet to meet anyone who has a similar understanding of existence that is willing to discuss information without labeling things right or wrong.  My response and choice of words is an indication of the type of person I am, and the same goes for you.  There is a universal truth that every one of us has a deep desire to uncover.  Regardless of belief, that truth will always exist.  It is up to each person to discover, learn, and understand it. 

You intend to be "right".  I intend to learn and educate.

How can you possibly learn anything if you are unwilling to change your current beliefs, no matter how concrete the mind convinces you they are.  Ultimately you will resonate with specific information, and what you feel is truth.  The ideas I share are what I strongly believe is truth.  But I am still open to all possibilities.
Neber
Neber Oct 29, 2009 at 4:44 am
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It's not about universal truth, it's more about credibility since we rely on trust, when trying to learn the truth. The information you use to point your points across, especially the 2% brain usage sound wrong, and misleading as well. The typical figure just by googling is 10%. And as always, perecentages, and the way you word stuff is essential and makes a big difference.

We all make conclusions based on our observation, it's not about "universal truth", our brains aren't even wired to work that way anyways, we're not binary computers, true or false.
Hazek
Hazek Oct 29, 2009 at 10:57 pm
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Neber said
It's not about universal truth, it's more about credibility since we rely on trust, when trying to learn the truth. The information you use to point your points across, especially the 2% brain usage sound wrong, and misleading as well. The typical figure just by googling is 10%. And as always, perecentages, and the way you word stuff is essential and makes a big difference.

We all make conclusions based on our observation, it's not about "universal truth", our brains aren't even wired to work that way anyways, we're not binary computers, true or false.
It is only about credibility to those who have a need to fulfill the ego.  Those who simply wish to learn and educate do not care if they are credited for the information, because universal truth will remain regardless of who shares it.

The point is that we are not using anywhere near 100% of our brains potential, not to pinpoint exactly what percent we currently use.
Neber
Neber Oct 30, 2009 at 12:00 am
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Hazek said
It is only about credibility to those who have a need to fulfill the ego.  Those who simply wish to learn and educate do not care if they are credited for the information, because universal truth will remain regardless of who shares it.

The point is that we are not using anywhere near 100% of our brains potential, not to pinpoint exactly what percent we currently use.
Credibility has nothing to do with ego. To those who can think straight, they will trust on a more credible source, The likelihood that the information is misinterpreted, misrepresented and many other issues is less likely to happen. Credibility has nothing to do with ego. The very opposite of going to credible sources is just being ignorant, and being gullible.

Expecting that your own self is "superior" enough to be able to understand information interpret it correctly, without formal training and education, is being a bit egotistic. Humans are meant to find patterns and piece things together, but we are definitely fallible, and are liable to find patterns which just aren't patterns.

Edit: took out the government part, didn't quite make the point i wanted to.
Hazek
Hazek Oct 30, 2009 at 1:23 am
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Neber said
Credibility has nothing to do with ego. To those who can think straight, they will trust on a more credible source, The likelihood that the information is misinterpreted, misrepresented and many other issues is less likely to happen. Credibility has nothing to do with ego. The very opposite of going to credible sources is just being ignorant, and being gullible.

Expecting that your own self is "superior" enough to be able to understand information interpret it correctly, without formal training and education, is being a bit egotistic. Humans are meant to find patterns and piece things together, but we are definitely fallible, and are liable to find patterns which just aren't patterns.

Edit: took out the government part, didn't quite make the point i wanted to.
What defines a credible source?
Neber
Neber Oct 30, 2009 at 2:17 am
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It's basically a source that's worthy of your trust. http://plagiarism.umf.maine.edu/valid.html, seems like a good website to understand credible sources.
Hazek
Hazek Oct 31, 2009 at 7:15 am
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Neber said
It's basically a source that's worthy of your trust. http://plagiarism.umf.maine.edu/valid.html, seems like a good website to understand credible sources.
My sources are worthy of my trust.
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