Create an Account
Forgot your Password?
World of Warcraft
WowRiot
Starcraft 2
Starfeeder
Hellforge
Hellforge
 
Machinima
Myndflame
RazeTheWorld
RazeTheWorld
Quake Live
Quake Life
 
1337pwn
1337pwn
Limit Break
Limit Break
Resident Evil
Resident Evil
 
Gameriot Store
Buy Games!
The Gameriot Store
 
 
 
POST STUFF
close
New Blog Post
Add a Video
Host an Image
Upload a File
by Saz, Level 14
Last updated at January 4, 2008, 5:12 am


I recently found myself being labeled an "exploiter" on korgath realm forums (a video was posted of me /sit /stand macroing in season 1). The thread in summary eventuated in me putting forward a bunch of arguements for the "playing to win" mentality and a bunch of repetitive arguements about cheating kept coming back. I felt my points were being wasted on a bunch of forums trolls who simply couldn't comprehend the logic behind playing to win.



 



I know alot of bg9'ers share the "play to win" attitude. This blog goes slightly deeper than serennia's blog regarding playing to win and goes more into into the mindset of wow players and why they dont share the beliefs competitive gamers from other games do. To those who dont play to win, I ask that whilst you might not agree with the logic, atleast do your best to understand it before posting a reply, thats if anyone even reads this.



 



E-sports vs Real sport.



 



Every competitive game has a set of rules, and similar to regular sports players must abide by them in order to win. There are 2 types of rules in both real sports and e-sports, the rules that define how the tournament is played out, and the rules that define how the matches in the tournament is played out.



 



Lets start with real sports since they are simple, Basketball for example. If a team loses a match, they lose a certain number of ladder points, and at the end of a season, X number of teams progress to the finals, this is a "tournament rule". A "game rule" is along the lines of when you take more than 2 steps without dribbling the ball its a foul called travel and the opposing team gets a side ball. There may be anywhere between 50-1000 total game rules in the official rule books of most sports.



 



Competitive esports on the other hand are slightly more advanced. Unfortunately the complexity of competitive games is what stems the "play to win" attitude in expert gamers. The key difference being that computer games unlike real sports have thousands upon thousands of programming rules that define how we can and can't play the game. Having such a large ruleset means it becomes harder to stop just one of these rules from slightly contradicting another, or opening up a window for a new style of play that might be "overpowered" and bring imbalance to the game. These contradictions and programming oversights ultimately lead to the discovery of bugs and design flaws.



 



Getting back to tournament rules and how they tie in with game rules in an e-sport. In wow for example, some simple tournament rules for dreamhack were that teams were allowed to bring 3 team members play any class and any composition provided they write it down on a piece of paper before every match and stick to what they wrote down. At this point they enter the arena and the rules they must abide by are now limited only by the rules programmed into the game its self. Any expert player will then use anything within the realms of the game to win.



 



The "play to win" mentality is common sense to most e-sport professionals. CS teams mastered the money system in early cs to the point it could almost be considered exploiting. SK most notably were able to manipulate the money system so perfectly that they would deliberately lose rounds in certain ways as to prevent their opponents from being able to afford weapons. This was later fixed in a patch, but it didnt change the fact that they won because they knew about it. and  doing or knowing something your opponent can't do or doesnt know about is theoretically what exploiting is all about.



 



What is a bug? A design flaw? They are both very similar, they are ultimately a just set of programming rules that eventuate to play style that differs from the play style the developers had in mind when they wrote the code. Should professional gamers exploit these bugs or design flaws? Ofcourse, if they didnt delve into the deepest parts of the game they would never be perfecting their play style. Generally anything that doesnt degenerate the skill aspect of the game or remove the competitive aspect completely is considered "fair game" for pro gamers. IE abusing a bug that d/c's your opponents would be considered unacceptable even by the non-scrub community, as it completely removing the competitive aspect.



 



Wow scrubs vs esports professionals



 



Why is it agreed apon in wow that wall jumping or heal drinking is "wrong", when it literally takes a written rule in counterstrike leagues to stop players from abusing bugs like crouch bobbing is (moving faster than walk speed without making a sound) If it isn't written in either the league rules or the games programming, then pro cs players will crouch bob at any given opportunity as you see in alot of the european leagues that still havent outlawed it. What is it that encourages wow scrubs to take the moral highground that no other competitive gamers seem to care about?



 



This brings us to the general attitude of a "scrub". Your average scrub whether he realises it or not is never going to be a competitive gamer, he is destined to lose as he is bound by a mental ruleset that either he himself creates, or in wow's case, the general public create, which stop him from doing everything within the realms of the game to win. For more on "scrubs" read this.



 



So where did this scrub attitude come from? Wow was never intended to be a competitive esport. Blizzard on release day impliminented a vague undefined moral ruleset that is non existant in almost every other esport. They did this through the "Game policies". It is this ruleset that contradict the rules of the game itself that trap wow players into being scrubs forever. Let me explain in more detail.



 



Abuse of Game Mechanics

Bug Exploitation



 



What the rules in these sections are effectively saying is, we forbid you to use all the programming rules in the game to your advantage. We forbid you from delving into aspects of the game that create meta games and play styles which we never initially fathomed. We forbid you from figuring out things we overlooked and using them as part of the game itself despite the fact they are infact part of our game. We forbid you from playing the game as a competitive esport.



 



Who draws the line between right and wrong? Is it "wrong" to jump 4 hops up a wall in nagrand? Effectively all you are doing is using a terrain design flaw to make it harder and take longer for melee to hit you, how is that any different to a druid kiting you around a pole? The game doesnt know of right or wrong only true or false. Unless every aspect of the game has been completely explored no 1 developer can make a moral judgement on each aspect and either allow or disallow it. All they can simply fix it as they go.



 



When it comes to balance blizzard has the experts to thank for abusing overpowered skills, exploiting terrain design, discovering bugs and using bugs with complete disregard for these policies. The "play to win" mentality is effectively pushing wow into the esports scene. Wow is a far more complex game than any of the current esports and thus it's going to take alot longer before it is ready to really take off as a competitive esport.



 



Wow, the game for scrubs.



 



All competitive games have tournament rules and game rules. In any competitive game besides wow, there is no 3rd ruleset that asks you to use your better judgement to determine whether a play style is "right" or "wrong". Whats unfortunate is that this ruleset is trapping even the top wow players in the "scrub" state of mind. No game will succeed competitively living under these vague loosely enforced policies about functions of the game that the rule makers themselves dont even know exist. Until people start realising that in order to stop being a "scrub" in wow you have to literally ignore these guidelines (not rules) and let nothing but well defined written rules and rules of the game itself limit how you play the game. Doing so might help refine probably the most complex game on the shelves from its current messy imbalanced state to a game that could succeed in a competitive environment.

     
33 comments
Raptoreyes
Raptoreyes Jan 4, 2008 at 5:36 am
None
None
+1 votes
None
Their are many things that are very cheap that you can do to overwhelm the intended game mechanics.  However those oversights at all times should be treated as BLIZZARDS FAULT and not their customers.  Blizzard really should give a free month worth of game time to those who get shafted by somebody who found a cheap arena exploit.  Never the less Blizzard is trying to shift the games flaws on to the player.   Blizzards cowardly dodge via thier own terms of service will hinder WoW from becoming a true e-sport but probably not stop it entirely until a better game appears.

However I have heard that Guild Wars has been stealing customers from WoW lately.  Hope its true as it might put the fear of capitalism in those lazy devs blizzard has working for them.
Shari Vegas
Shari Vegas Jan 4, 2008 at 5:52 am
None
None
+1 votes
None
Now the question becomes: How far do you want to extrapolate these ideas of only enforcing the mechanics of the game determining how you play?

Let's turn your question back around: How far are YOU willing to go to play to win? Since it seems like you really don't care for such "scrub" rules to disenchant the game and it's inherit flaws in your mind, today it's exploits, does that mean that pulling in a set of hacks to win your Arena matches tomorrow is a perfectly fine idea, since all you're doing is playing to win, and Warden has holes you can poke in it?

And since when has crouch hopping been allowed in league play? I thought maybe hell froze over, but it looks like it's still every bit as fiery as before, as at least CAL and CEVO 1.6 rules do not allow for exploiting the movement in a way where you run faster, or soundless.

Play to win? Or win at all costs? May want to make the differentiation between the two. Because what you suggest isn't playing to win, but winning at all costs.
Saz
Saz Jan 4, 2008 at 6:18 am
None
None
+1 votes
None
Sorry you're right, some comps and leagues have rules against crouch bobbing and other have rules limiting it whilst others dont have rules restricting it at all.
nzgs
nzgs Jan 4, 2008 at 6:45 am
None
None
+1 votes
None
thats not playing to win you moron, thats just exploiting. SR gear is intended, using /who is intended, but drinking whilst taking damage is clearly unintended and this is demonstrated that there is no mechanism to do it outside of a macro.
skromzor
skromzor Jan 4, 2008 at 7:40 am
None
None
+1 votes
None
You don't need a macro to drink after you heal someone in combat, which is the bug he was referring too.
You also don't need a macro to charge/intercept from the bottom of blade's edge to someone standing on top of the bridge, or from the flag room too someone standing on the 2nd level in wsg.
The point is that there are many exploits in this game that people use just like charging too people which exploits the pathing mechanism that isn't considered a big deal, and no one complains about. Then there are exploits such as wall jumping (which doesn't even give you an advantage if you play against anyone decent) which people consider "lame".
Rather than have individual people decide what is aloud and what is not, do what ever is within the boundaries of the game and if blizzard consider it an exploit they will fix it just like they did with sit/stand macros.
Eriaa
Eriaa Jan 4, 2008 at 7:13 am
None
None
+3 votes
None
Saturna
Saturna Jan 4, 2008 at 2:35 pm
None
None
+1 votes
None
Eating 3 bags of Spicy Thai Kettle Chips a day isn't either.
Eriaa
Eriaa Jan 4, 2008 at 7:30 pm
None
None
+1 votes
None
Fenris
Fenris Jan 4, 2008 at 7:43 am
None
None
+1 votes
None
You hit the nail right on the head! Allow me a casual QFT:

"WoW - a game for scrubs"

As for EULA -  any semi-competent law student while getting a bj and being hangover from the night before could tell you what a load of crap it is. And a load of crap that wouldn't hold water on court if questioned at that.

But as always in life money talks louder than anything else.
Saz
Saz Jan 4, 2008 at 8:03 am
None
None
+1 votes
None
You understand to to a greater extent where i was trying to go with this. The eula and the game policies that govern how we play the game are so vague and loosely enforced that no game could succeed competitively under these guidelines. They are effectively making "rules" about stuff that they themselves and even the players dont know exist and determining whether it is right or wrong before they even know what it is they are talking about. So if wow players really did want to stop being "scrubs" you should play to win :).
Fenris
Fenris Jan 4, 2008 at 8:16 am
None
None
+1 votes
None
Aye, completely agree. One can argue that WoW isn't made to be competitive and as such is working as intended but none are arguing what dev's original intentions were - only calling things as they are.

On top of such vague game organization or structure if you will, comes common player's grief, jealousy, nerd-whatnot etc which i believe is the major cause for name calling, making endless snotty-nose cryfest  posts on official forums etc etc.

As far as i'm concerned untill  there's something similar to a league or a competition with it's separate rule set and a rule set that can be managed, monitored and inforced anything and everything allowed by the game mechanics is just another 'skill' to use as long as it's keeping things on an even keel so to speak - not violating anyone's chances of being competitive if they choose to be so.
nub0rn
nub0rn Jan 4, 2008 at 7:55 am
None
None
+2 votes
None
"Who draws the line between right and wrong?"

Obviously YOU want to be the one who does. sit/drinking and walljumping is ok, but dcing opponents is not? please be more hypocrite...

You don't want to get the line drawn for you, but you want to draw it for others.
wsvg
wsvg Jan 4, 2008 at 8:26 am
None
None
+1 votes
None
There's a problem with kids who play WoW. Arena was introduced for competition and to showcase skill. At what point do players begin crossing the line and flat out win trading. It was rampant last season, and they justify it by well we're the best players but we can't get our rating because of x, y, z so we feed our team wins.

Take shadow resist also, under tourney rules teams wouldn't have access to it. But, it's justified because people who play warlocks are generally skill-less scrubs so we should use shadow resist to win and because we're better players.

You can pretty much justify anything under the mentality of most hardcore WoW players.
asiandotkom
asiandotkom Jan 4, 2008 at 10:46 am
None
None
+1 votes
None
how does that work exactly?  wouldnt they just retain the same rating?
kwikkE
kwikkE Jan 4, 2008 at 10:54 am
None
None
+1 votes
None
You obviously don't know a **** about cs and probably nothing else, it seems that you are a scrub yourself.
In for example cs everyone knows that flash bugs ain't allowed even if not said, so don't talk **** about a game you don't know anything about because that clearly makes your examples fail.
Saz
Saz Jan 4, 2008 at 4:14 pm
None
None
+1 votes
None
Yes, cs has been balanced to the point of there being only 1-2 bugs total that even exist in the game anymore, (there may be more but people arent aware of them atleast, if something new is discovered it will be abused like crouch bobbing until a rule in the league is written against it).

The point is it literally takes a written rule (which there is about the flash bug in all leagues and crouch bobbing in some leagues) to stop cs players from performing them. In the absence of this rule defined and specific to known bugs (not broad and oppinionated like "dont exploit in general") rest assured cs players will and do exploit them.
TehJerk
TehJerk Jan 4, 2008 at 2:13 pm
None
None
+1 votes
None
First of all, real sports analogies to WoW are just bad. I wish people would stop that, its silly. High levels of real sports are exclusive to top level athletes. Its not a situation like a videogame on the shelves of some game store where 99% of players who buy it are simply looking for FUN entertainment, where the 1% or less, take it like its the military because they feel like they have play to win by any means necessary because they think they are pro.

You compete in a venue that is NOT competetive. If anything youre success as a 'pro WoW player', much less pro gamer of any sort is largely based on 99% of your competition not taking it as seriouisly as you do. IF everyone played to win, went to the lengths some of you do to be good, and played as much as some of you do then there would be many more competetive players to you, vs you. Thing is many people treat WoW for what it is - a game. Alot of people work rl jobs and play it liesurely, alot could be 12yr olds playing when their parents are asleep, etc. WoW is not anything close to a serious venue of competetive competition by its masses, its simply a massively popular game that some people take very seriously to be good, while the masses take as a game. Entertainment. I mean how many people go to Gamestop to buy a game and are like "Damn i cant wait to train and practice to be pro at this game so i can be the best?"...only the ones that really care about being the best in such a petty venue of entertainment vs the masses that could care less :p

I'm not exactly familiar with some of the Arena 'exploits' your refering to, but i will say your blog sounds alot like the exploiters who rationalize what they do as ok because Blizzard isnt perfect(no gamemaker is) and buffered their game for every loophole a player can come up with. New code and content are constantly added to mmorpg's, so its not like CS, its alot more complex like you said, and with that are many more avenues for loopholes to exploit. The idea that Blizzard is supposed to be perfect and completely outline every possible exploit a player can come up with in a constantly evolving game that always creates new loopholes is silly.

That all said there is common sense in what should be usable and whats an exploit. I remember facing this druid in BG's once who was literally skipping all over the place on me, and i wasnt lagging in a 1 on 1. I kind of blew it off, just another fight in another bg, odd things happen. I read the forums a week later and i find out this guy was banned for speed hacking with some MAJOR QQ thread from his guild, think they were called the Red Flags? from Gorefiend saying how innocent and unjustly banned he was tryiing to get people to support them, and how they know him and he would never do something like that. Finally a blue posts explaining how irrrefutable the evidence was...i just thought it was ironic considering i knew something was odd, altho i just blew it off, nice to see people get what they deserve...

and the biggest thing it showed me is that cheaters/exploiters and their friends will find/makeup every reason to rationalize/deny they did something of that sort. Same thing happened back in UO with a guild called KoC who duped bigtime, and everyone connected to them swore theyre innocense blaming the game makers for unjustly banning...i knew they duped tho. ITs just such a joke how players are that always try and find holes in a system to gain any advantage they can get just to be better than everyone else in a game most people take way less seriously.
Saz
Saz Jan 4, 2008 at 4:47 pm
None
None
+2 votes
None
There are written precise rules even in wow that disallow players from using any 3rd party program in conjuction with wow to edit the way it is played in any way, this doesnt come down to common sense, this comes down to you simply breaking the rules which is what a speed hack like the example you gae entails. The exploitation of bugs and design flaws is completely different entirely since it is nothing but oppinion based and revolves around a grey line that is never truely drawn until blizzard address the bug with programming rules to either prevent it, fix it, or expand and allow it.
Jedus
Jedus Jan 4, 2008 at 2:28 pm
None
None
+1 votes
None
Exploiting isnt bad. It's playing to WIN! Hell that applies in life as well, just look at Enron. Exploittttttttttttttt111
blog vitals
Works of a high end pvper from both bg9 and bg6.
No Subscribers
comments48    Likes: 0    February 2, 2008, 8:56 am
comments56    Likes: 0    January 24, 2008, 7:54 am
comments16    Likes: 0    January 21, 2008, 12:27 pm
comments33    Likes: 0    January 4, 2008, 5:12 am
Started January 4, 2008
4 Total Entries
THE SPOTLIGHT
Pornstar Friday! Comic-Con, Tron, Orgasm death!
1 of 10
THE IMAGE FEED
161 images uploaded in the last 60 days. Got an image you need hosted?
Copyright ©2007-2010 GameRiot All Rights Reserved.