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by Sciar, Level 31
Last updated at June 16, 2009, 11:24 am
With the release of this movie and it getting widespread attention as of yesterday, here's a recent patch note:

6/15/09

  • The additional healing Freya receives, through the Attuned to Nature buff, has been increased.
  • Focus Anger, on Yogg-Saron’s Crusher tentacles, will no longer result from pet attacks.
  • Pyrite will now disappear after 3 minutes instead of 1 minute.

10 Man Zerg Freya Hardmode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuvKiJsG9Mo

So as you can see it's a pretty blatant fix for a fairly certain group, but let me ask you how many raids can pull this off and should it be nerfed for this reason alone. I think when you give a boss a heal that drops you have to expect someone tries to damage through it. Especially when the requirement was only a little above 6k DPS per 8 DPS in the 10 man raid (If the numbers quoted to me are correct). I've got to say personally I think if you can coordinate this and keep the entire raid alive and you wipe it everytime you get a snaplasher cause that **** just isn't happening... Well good job you just beat hardmode Freya you'd probably have an easier time doing it properly.

Arena Changes

Well there has been a slew of comments posted by blizzard rep's stating that "Burst is too high" but the fix can't be to lower burst because then healing potential becomes overdone, so in order to balance all of this out they need to change some major things. RMP is over represented but at the same time nerf RMP and watch double cleave take its place. I like hearing these posts because it reminds me that every once in a while the dribble I hear spilled by the average player of this game isn't actually taken too seriously because they think of the entire problem instead of just a quick fix like "Nerf DK's and ret pallies". So personally I started trying to think of how I would solve this dilemna and an old time solution that I've ranted about for a good chunk of time now came to me.

Arena water: Lets face it, this is what makes mana pointless, very few teams or I should say very few games end with 0 drinks going off in 2's at least. 3v3 a lot of games are bursted really early, but try to use mana burn, or any mana efficiency to win the game and it really doesn't matter. I mean I'm not going to start going on innervate right now which has some ridiculous regen, but possibly taking out the unlimited mana concept they've implemented could be a nice start towards pushing for a game to end from mana pools instead of requiring stupid high burst to win.

Take out burst, and you make rogues, warriors, and hunters 100% necessary because 50% healing is effectively halving healers, which means good luck winning a mana game when you heal twice as much as the other team, we're all aware of this but this games balance is kindof stupid, so I suggest everybody take a step back and imagine the larger picture of things before jumping to quick conclusions, but I am curious to hear what the higher end players think of solving this Burst vs. Survivability vs. Manapools issue. Because frankly I have to agree with the comments Blizzard has posted (soon to follow) that healers are just too damn good if you remove being able to burst somebody down.

Here's the post:
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Rogue Mage Priest
We'd prefer to see other comps as dominant as RMPs in 3s. The problem is if we nerf RMP without making other changes, then double melee teams would likely just take their place. The public perception is that at least RMP requires more coordination and finesse than double melee (though we also think there is validity to the claim that just because you have the option of crowd control doesn't mean that bursting someone down makes you somehow more legit.) (Source)

PvP Issues
I'll be very brief, but here are the problems we see in PvP right now.

1) Too much emphasis on Arenas and not enough on BGs.
2) Too much emphasis on 2s and not enough on 3s and 5s.
3) Not enough class / spec representation in Arena. Warlock, hunter and shaman numbers in particular are too low, but they're not the only ones.
4) Too fast-paced.

Let me explain this last one in more detail. Some people in the community think that burst dps is too high. We disagree, and the reason we do is that healing is also very powerful in Arenas, to the point at which not having a Mortal Strike debuff may be a huge liability. If you can't burst someone down when wounded, they just aren't going to die unless the healer is mana-drained or chain crowd-controlled, neither of which are overly fun in the extreme case. You can have too much damage, too much healing or too much crowd control.

But when you consider specific matches, particularly of the highest rated teams, those guys are using their full toolbox. The problem is that the windows in which to use those tools can be very small. When you are injured, you might have a global cooldown in which to respond. If you make it, you might very well be fully healed in the next cooldown and "reset" the match. If you fail, you're dead and the match may be over. We'd like to add an extra GCD or two to many of these situations.

Now there still are extreme cases of burst in some specs that need to be chilled out. However, if we just lower burst damage across the board we're concerned people just wouldn't ever die and only specs with multiple forms of crowd-control would be considered viable. (Source)

[...] I probably should have added an additional bullet, which is that in the previous season, starter resilience gear was either too hard to get or sacrificed too many stats. We want resilience to be attractive because of the survivability it brings (and I think that part is working), but we started players too low. You need like 500 before you start to notice its effect and 800 to 1000 before you actually live long enough to respond to attacks (though as I suggested above, perhaps not long enough). (Source)

Burst damage in PvP
Let’s assume for the sake of argument that burst is too high. Imagine we made changes such that getting an 8K crit was almost impossible and 3K or 4K hits were more common. Now consider what would happen. You hit someone. The healer heals them. You keep hitting. The healer heals them. Two strategies then rise to the top as the only way to win a match: keep the healer crowd-controlled forever or drain her mana. Yet not every class has the same amount of crowd control and very few have mana drains. We don’t want every class to have those abilities because then every class feels alike. Furthermore, playing a healer that never gets to, you know, actually play because you’re always sheeped / cyclone or OOM isn’t much fun either.

In the current game, imagine a mage getting beat on to the point where he is near Execute range. He decides to Blink. If he gets the Blink off, he might have just won the match because he can get healed to full before the melee close again. If he fails to get the Blink off, he’ll probably die in the very next GCD. He might have a window of 2 seconds max to win or lose the game. If you have those situations every now and then you end up with a nail-biter match. That’s cool. However, if every single encounter with the other team is like that, it’s just exhausting. Many fights will end in just a few GCDs. Others will go on and on, at least until the healer runs OOM, which is unlikely to happen with abilities like Innervate and Divine Plea. It’s just too extreme in both damage done and healing done. (Source)

Arenas and grinding for rewards
I think some players like Arenas because they are quick, easy to organize (relative to a BG), often have fast queues, and / or they just enjoy the “purity” (for want of a better word) of just trying to kill the other team without having to worry about flags, reinforcements, bad players not contributing to the war effort, etc. However, a lot of players who may not really like Arenas get drawn into them in order to procure the best PvP gear. This second issue is something we’d like to fix, but we need to develop a way to reward good gear through BGs that isn’t based on endless grinding. (Source)
=================================================================

I'm also very curious to see the results of battlegrounds awarding top end gear based on skill not grind time. It's kindof like how some players dont like dedicating all their time to Raiding so they made heroic gear on par with ulduar 25 man. Yknow because we all love playing with retards in greens so we can get our stuff, somebody mail me a bot I need more honor gear.
     
17 comments
Deeta
Deeta Jun 16, 2009 at 11:37 am
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+2 votes
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you created this ******* mess blizzard, we dont want to hear your retarded excuses about why burst damage is to high, just ******* fix it. ******* lol at the comment on getting cc'd all day as a healer wouldnt be fun, just wow.
xira
xira Jun 16, 2009 at 12:12 pm
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+0 votes
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especially because it still happens
Lockster
Lockster Jun 16, 2009 at 11:49 am
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-2 votes
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Give all healers (except druids LOL) new ability "LIVING STRIKE" reduces all damage done by target by 50%, HOW ABOUT THAT.
Kelberot
Kelberot Jun 16, 2009 at 12:28 pm
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+1 votes
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Blizzard should take the simple way for once instead of adding more stupid **** trying to bandaid the issues.

Long time ago GC/Kalgan suggested MS was so good that maybe all classes should have it inside the arena. I completely agree, I think all classes should have MS, and it should NOT stack, obviously.

Maybe you could have the arms warrior still with his stupid 75% MS debuff to keep them unique, but still the only way to keep healers under control without ******* it up would be giving MS to everyone. Giving the ability to kill a healer to every class without having to explode them sounds much better than trying to keep every class different or any other bull**** like that... I don't care when I'm being hit for 4k from a crusader strike or a conflag which one looks better. Both spells work in a stupid way, too much damage.

Damage should work like the s3/4 shadowstep rogues (in PvP gear) - good steady damage, but with the option to burst every now and then.
Moogz
Moogz Jun 16, 2009 at 1:49 pm
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+1 votes
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Kelberot said
Blizzard should take the simple way for once instead of adding more stupid **** trying to bandaid the issues.

Long time ago GC/Kalgan suggested MS was so good that maybe all classes should have it inside the arena. I completely agree, I think all classes should have MS, and it should NOT stack, obviously.

Maybe you could have the arms warrior still with his stupid 75% MS debuff to keep them unique, but still the only way to keep healers under control without ******* it up would be giving MS to everyone. Giving the ability to kill a healer to every class without having to explode them sounds much better than trying to keep every class different or any other bull**** like that... I don't care when I'm being hit for 4k from a crusader strike or a conflag which one looks better. Both spells work in a stupid way, too much damage.

Damage should work like the s3/4 shadowstep rogues (in PvP gear) - good steady damage, but with the option to burst every now and then.
Agreed, i'm usually against that sort of mass homogenizing but i think it'd be a lot better for arena on the whole if everything was balanced around an MS instead of non-MS classes needing ridiculous burst to be viable

also the homogenizing wouldnt be that bad if perhaps they varied the delivery of ms from different classes, the effects, the choices etc

you could have some having stronger MS's but they're not 100% uptime like rogues/warriors etc
Alkazor
Alkazor Jun 16, 2009 at 2:43 pm
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+1 votes
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They would have to seriously have to decrease all the non MS dps/burst output. I'm runnng RLD and I know the only reason we farm 2x plate melee cleave teams is largely because of double disarm. I can't imagine what a DK/RET/healer pressure would be like if they had an MS unless their dmg was significantly nerfed.
shindofivezorz
shindofivezorz Jun 16, 2009 at 12:36 pm
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+3 votes
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ontherise
ontherise Jun 16, 2009 at 1:09 pm
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+1 votes
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******* piece of sit blog from a worthless piece of **** gtfo
Xaeranth
Xaeranth Jun 16, 2009 at 1:24 pm
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+1 votes
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ontherise said
******* piece of sit blog from a worthless piece of **** gtfo
Hahaha, this was awesome.

+1'ing this comment.
Sabella
Sabella Jun 16, 2009 at 2:15 pm
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+3 votes
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Naac
Naac Jun 16, 2009 at 4:07 pm
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You should not be able to kill a healer or anyone on the healers team without ccing them... EVER.
The only exception to this is in 5's where 3 dpsers should be able to out damage a single healer ( if only one is cced).

But yeah, if 2 melee are training a fully geared warlock without even attempting to interupt or disrupt the healer in anyway they should be punished for tunnel visioning a single target where as right now... they are rewarded for it.

The same goes for 2's.  If you can just tunnel the dpser and eventually win because the healer just cannot keep up with the sheer damage output and can't actually do anything else then that is a problem.

IMO giving ALL healers abilities that stack on a target when you cast a heal that increase the healing done and also buffing those abilities significantly ( so rather then 10% or 12% its more like 25-30%) and then toning down healing overall by like 5% it would serve to punish the teams that just straight up tunnel a single person all game.

This would promote switching and further more, coordinated switching ( to maximize the damage you can output before the healer can build up the stacks on the new person) and also potentially increase the healer skillcap.  Should they let the buffs fall off of their partner when they are healing themself or should they throw a heal to keep it going incase the team switches again?

Stuff like this I think would help the game a little bit.


Also remove things like sap->fear->blind->vanish+sap-> possibly MC or another fear... that if pulled off correctly are a guaranteed win.  There is really nothing the opposing healer can do if the priest/rogue is coordinated enough and this kind of situation should never exist,... where despite not making a mistake... you still lose.
Naac
Naac Jun 16, 2009 at 4:08 pm
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+1 votes
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and to add onto my last point.

I'm not saying that cc chains are a bad thing, but in arena you should have to rely on the other teams mistakes to win.  Situations where both teams play perfect yet only one team wins every time just scream imbalanced.
subbeast
subbeast Jun 16, 2009 at 9:12 pm
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-1 votes
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Wounding/ms is clearly too powerful...

Yet they nerfed ret pallys vindication.

Phenomenal logic at work right there.
Alsn
Alsn Jun 18, 2009 at 11:42 pm
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+1 votes
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I realise that actually using logic is beneath someone as omniscient as yourself but everyone else understood and welcomed that change since teams incorporating an ms effect in addition to vindication was one of the most retarded things that has ever existed in this game.
yukizlol
yukizlol Jun 17, 2009 at 6:46 pm
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+2 votes
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+1 for talking about somthing thats broken
mattehlol
mattehlol Jun 17, 2009 at 8:53 pm
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+2 votes
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blog vitals
Sciar talks about games, while much like other blogs this one has me.
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