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by Roma Victor, Level 49
Last updated at May 12, 2008, 4:54 pm

New shoulders, the subject
Of casual fantasy.
He wants them, so badly,
Knows that he has to trade.



So the WoW forums are alive with Blizzard's latest crackdown on the arena PR pimps and their desperate buyers.  As a confessed shoulders buyer (remember, I play a paladin that is barred by statute from shoulders in 2v2/3v3) I'd be lying if I didn't feel some trepidation logging on this morning.  Courtesy of Blizzard's incredibly shortsighted and anti-competitive PR requirements for S3 gear, virtually every casual I know either buys PR or points now.  So I fully expect[ed] an enormous amount of casual players to be hit with suspensions or bans.

So far, so good but who knows if this is just the start of the latest witchhunt. It's sad because in S2, no casual I knew even bought points and win trading was a nonissue (for casuals).  Everyone knew they'd eventually get all the arena PVP gear in S2, even though it would take about 5-6 weeks per piece.  Now that ratings are apparently here to stay, arena exploitation has exploded into a very profitable business (see my previous posts on the subject).

Without rehashing why gear discrepancy is a Very Bad Idea in a lolcompetitive esport, let me just offer my condolences to anyone hit by the ban wave.  I believe as the virtual economy continues to grow these kinds of opaque, no due process type actions will eventually succumb to the same legal requirements that protect regular property.  Let me explain.

The Legal Angle
The U.S. Internal Revenue Service and Congress is already beginning to look at a tax on the sale of virtual currency because it can be converted into real currency at a fairly stable exchange rate. The IRS could basically consider the earning of in game gold as gross income.  In fact, a Forbes article (can't find link anymore) I read a few years ago ranked WoW's virtual economy as something like the 39th largest if compared against other countries: higher than Argentina in fact (something insane like that).  It's a billion dollar+ business.  And like other billion dollar businesses, it's subject to the same kind of oversight, regulation and legal protection we expect in other industries, real or virtual.

Now I'm sure someone will pipe up here and say "Roma, you moron, they can do whatever they want, it says so in the ToS!!!11!!!".  Well, that's true to a point.  But virtual property is one of the Wild West frontiers of intellectual property law right now- an area I fully expect to explode in the very near future (and I wish to partake in that explosion when I pass the bar of course).  Actions in equity provide a remedy where the normal legal remedy is insufficient. Let me provide a simple analogy.

Suppose you paid a membership fee to belong to an art studio.  The membership gave you access to the art studio where you could use their paint, canvas, etc... to paint whatever you wanted. And suppose the membership agreement gave the art studio the right to cancel the membership agreement at will and retain all ownership rights in any paintings you create. Basically you were paying for the right to paint in their studio.  Suppose you paint the equivalent of the Mona Lisa.  The studio then discovers that you -- against their studio rules -- used oil paints purchased outside the studio. They cancel your membership and confiscate your painting, the Mona Lisa Deux.

How many of you believe that a court sitting in equity is going to let the studio reap the benefit of all your labor?  And more importantly -- all that value.  It's essentially unjust enrichment.  Typically contract actions are limited to actual damages and keeping a priceless painting clearly seems excessive.

Someone is going to bring this kind of lawsuit in the next few years, guaranteed. Especially if they can convince a few lawmakers of all the potential revenue to be gained. I foresee a day soon when MMO companies merely provide the world and the content but players own the virtual property, subject to rules on ownership and transfer of property laid out by the legislature.  If you're going to ban someone for a violation of an in game policy, costing them thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours in labor, be prepared to follow due process just as if you were going to repossess someone's car if they default on a loan.

Ruat caelum fiat justitia.

Attorney Coda: If I misstated the legal analysis anywhere, feel to correct me and I will edit accordingly.

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64 comments
Lipton
Lipton May 12, 2008 at 5:04 pm
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That is pretty hardcore and I hope we don't get to that point where the money/gold we own in any online game can be taxed or in any other way monitored by the government :(

I've never played 2nd life or any of those other RL-mmo's but I would think something like this may start there first...
Lipton
Lipton May 12, 2008 at 5:22 pm
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From the first link:
"“We are starting with a blank slate and going through the various
dimensions of virtual economies, and seeing where they might intersect
with public policy,”"

Looking for the positives in this, with more and more people playing MMOs with virtual economies, this means more people that will actually care about who is elected to govern and create these tax laws.

Example... say 1 million gamers have to pay taxes on the gold they make now, then lets say they are of voting age. Who are these 1 million gamers going to vote for? The old crusty conservative internet-dumb politician? Or the younger, smarter, Pro-internet politician?


Future president: "I promise NO MORE NEW MMO TAXES!" Gamers - w00t we votxorz u dood.


Now here is a question, what about gamers that are not of voting age or even taxable age... they should still be able to use Gold in a game, but how would they or even should they be taxed?
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 12, 2008 at 5:29 pm
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The old crusty conservative internet-dumb politician?

I hope you're using conservative in the literal sense and not the ideological context.

Now here is a question, what about gamers that are not of voting age or even taxable age... they should still be able to use Gold in a game, but how would they or even should they be taxed?

It's no different at all from a minor who earns income mowing lawns.  If the income is below a certain threshold they pay no taxes, just like today (under U.S. law).
Nacca
Nacca May 12, 2008 at 5:07 pm
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I can totally see this happening in second life.  that game is scary close to being actually "real"  if ever the day does come when i am taxed even more so than I am now, just because I am simply playing an MMO, it will be a sad day indeed.  Could you imagine the fallout of player populations across all mmo's? 
Craptor
Craptor May 12, 2008 at 5:09 pm
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I dont think this is necessarily a bad thing... it could provide more protection to players.
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 12, 2008 at 5:22 pm
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it could provide more protection to players

Correct- depriving someone of thousands of $$$ of virtual property that Blizzard did nothing to earn wouldn't likely be upheld if it were real property, so I fully expect these laws to eventually extend to virtual property.
bife
bife May 12, 2008 at 5:24 pm
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people bought/sold points like crazy in s2
it was easier to do so than today

I wonder what's the IRS going to try and do about those of us that are not american.
Bronxie
Bronxie May 12, 2008 at 5:31 pm
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Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 12, 2008 at 5:31 pm
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I wonder what's the IRS going to try and do about those of us that are not american.

Nothing as far as income I would assume. But I highly doubt the EU (not sure where you're from, just guessing) would let that income go untaxed either.
bife
bife May 12, 2008 at 5:39 pm
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Panama Republic
yay for the wild wild south
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 12, 2008 at 6:22 pm
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Panama Republic
yay for the wild wild south

For real? Where? Costa Rica? I so want to retire there on my ill gotten arena PR selling gains once I consolidate my ironfisted reign over Holyfusion's old territory.
bife
bife May 12, 2008 at 6:38 pm
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I was typing a reply saying how Panama > Costa Rica and was going to include some visual aids like a map of the region with arrows pointing to the apropriate country along with some 'witty' comment.

so I type costa rica on google and I'm greeted with a map pic and http://www.surfersvillage.com/gal/pictures/Miss_Reef_Costa_Rica06_1Gal.jpg

I guess I feel like I'm living in the Holy Pally of 3rd world countries. :(
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 12, 2008 at 7:31 pm
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I was typing a reply saying how Panama > Costa Rica

Even worse, I didn't read carefully and thought you wrote "Banana Republic", hence my guess at Costa Rica.
Seventity
Seventity May 12, 2008 at 5:36 pm
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Personal rating is already making me cry out loud when playing arena, same for my friend. He is a retri paladin that is stuck for weeks trying to get 1850 legitimately. Even me with my warrior and stormherald am unable to get to 1850 without changing my team partner to someone full S3 with great skills. The fact is, for me real PvP starts when you achieve all the gear possible... and so far, all I'm doing is achieving this gear... can't imagine achieving S4 shoulders without getting them first to be able to do so... Blizzard masters of paradox.
Romantic
Romantic May 12, 2008 at 5:48 pm
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Oh so instead of getting the other 4/5 available pieces and the other free vengeful casual gear, you opt to get the shoulders first. ur dumb.
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 12, 2008 at 6:17 pm
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He is a retri paladin that is stuck for weeks trying to get 1850 legitimately.

I know of what you speak and pretty much agree with what you wrote. It sucks.
trag
trag May 12, 2008 at 5:37 pm
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Ah equity, the last refuge of scoundrels.
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 12, 2008 at 6:17 pm
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Ah equity, the last refuge of scoundrels.

Much love. <3
trag
trag May 13, 2008 at 12:38 am
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One thought came to me though... companies do this kind of **** all the time contractually. If you sign on as a R&D man you contract away your right to claim any of your "inventions" for yourself in return for a regular salary, or a "bonus" per invention.

Generally courts don't like to redesign contracts for people. As the breacher your only option (that I can think of right now, having just celebrated finishing my 1L exams for the 3rd night in a row) would be to sue off the contract under an unjust enrichment theory, but Blizzard doesn't resell the gold so they don't benefit in any way from stripping your account of valuables. The only other theory of remedy that I can think of that would work here would be to put both parties back to position they were before the contract was formed, which would still result in you getting screwed. Being the breacher here substantially limits your options, assuming that Blizzard can actually point to some way in which an offender has breached the TOS and they're not just enforcing their right to terminate at will.
Nochtis
Nochtis May 12, 2008 at 5:51 pm
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Well Blizz doesn't sell confiscated accounts as far as I know, so I don't see the analogy with the Mona Lisa as a good one.
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 12, 2008 at 6:20 pm
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Well Blizz doesn't sell confiscated accounts as far as I know, so I don't see the analogy with the Mona Lisa as a good one.

A) That you know of.
B) They're still depriving you of your property, which has real value, without due process or meaningful recourse.  Even black letter bankruptcy law doesn't let a secured creditor do this.
Klynx
Klynx May 12, 2008 at 11:10 pm
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I want to take you out and have a good beer with you and discuss
virtual property law and contract law.  Perhaps some hanky-panky. 
Thoughts?
Crocpot
Crocpot May 12, 2008 at 11:43 pm
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Can we talk about your 18-0 2v2 over the main course and your win traded shoulders over dessert?
Klynx
Klynx May 13, 2008 at 12:25 am
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If you're going to try to "get" me then at least do it accurately.  It was 28-0 record before my first loss.

The shoulders are admittedly less legitimate than this rock hard kill-boner I have while wearing them and smashing scrubs in BGs.
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 13, 2008 at 5:26 am
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I want to take you out and have a good beer with you and discuss
virtual property law and contract law.  Perhaps some hanky-panky. 
Thoughts?


Are you a Dutch blonde with that hot librarian look that I simply cannot resist?

Because if so... YES.
teekala
teekala May 12, 2008 at 7:04 pm
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It's wrong to call ppl casuals who cant achieve the ratings on their own, they're just bad players :(
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 12, 2008 at 7:38 pm
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It's wrong to call ppl casuals who cant achieve the ratings on their own, they're just bad players

I respectfully disagree. The casual moniker reflects a person's attitude and lifestyle, not their arena ratings. There are casual gladiators and hardcore sub 1500 players.  Skill is -- in general, but not always -- a non sequitur to someone's casualness. 

However, many casuals are unable or unwilling to spend the time to get a group of people with the same goals, good skills and a compatible schedule. They therefore will not achieve high ratings.
Zapatos
Zapatos May 12, 2008 at 8:07 pm
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What really intrigues me is the process Blizzard uses to flag a win-trading team/player. With all the false positive out there, it makes me wonder.
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 12, 2008 at 9:20 pm
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What really intrigues me is the process Blizzard uses to flag a win-trading team/player. With all the false positive out there, it makes me wonder.

Obvious subpoena target. BTW, I haven't heard if this is just for 2's thus far or for all brackets.
Klynx
Klynx May 12, 2008 at 11:11 pm
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Is it just for inflation of team's ratings that they are punishing people?
Zapatos
Zapatos May 13, 2008 at 12:01 am
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They're banning any and all win-trading, even if you only wintraded to sell points going 5-5 to keep your teams at the same rating. I'm guessing they're investigating all teams that played more than X matches togheter in a short period of time.
Klynx
Klynx May 13, 2008 at 12:29 am
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How can they possibly identify these accurately?  I have no clue if I am playing on a team that at some point prior to my joining participated in win-trading (the same goes for activities it engages in after I leave).  I hop around a ton and don't follow team names, just players.

Am I at risk?  This sounds like an STD after school special.
Zapatos
Zapatos May 13, 2008 at 12:35 am
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I am guessing "suspicious" teams are flagged automatically and are then investigated by a team of account administrators. If you were at one point on a team that win-traded (before or after you joined it) you might be at risk, if what is heard on the forum is accurate.
Klynx
Klynx May 13, 2008 at 4:41 am
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God this is such a boneheaded move by Blizzard.  They are patching 2.4.2 soon to eliminate this, and that will be the end of it.  Why piss off so many subscribers that love the game?  The economy will re-stabilize when 2.4.2 hits from any problems it had beforehand.  Just makes no business sense to me.

Somewhere along the way a Blizzard employee lost total sight of how this is a game and not a government/citizen relationship.  Being punished doesn't really HELP anyone, but fixing the loopholes immediately does.  Why blame the players when all the problems can be fixed through coding changes?
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 13, 2008 at 6:04 am
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Why blame the players when all the problems can be fixed through coding changes?

Like many big companies, they believe they are immune to market forces and therefore can treat their customers with contempt with complete impunity.
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 13, 2008 at 5:27 am
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Is it just for inflation of team's ratings that they are punishing people?

AFAIK just win trading, whatever the reason. The high profile targets seem to be getting hit hardest though.
Zapatos
Zapatos May 12, 2008 at 11:27 pm
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Klynx
Klynx May 13, 2008 at 12:26 am
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If you don't know its really not worth the effort to explain what that means and how it applies to the situation he was referring to.

ROMA PLEASE GO ON A MAN DATE WITH ME
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 13, 2008 at 5:43 am
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??

The accused has a right to view the evidence that is being used against him, similar to the right to confront the accuser.  The means by which he's being claimed to be a win trader would be info any accused would want to know to see if the algorithm is even valid, let alone fair.
empathogen
empathogen May 13, 2008 at 12:47 am
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do American courts allow you to subpoena evidence that reveals trade secrets of a company for civil matters? i'm guessing the algorithm they use would be proprietary.
kAur
kAur May 13, 2008 at 1:25 am
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The amount of wikipedia in this comment is staggering
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 13, 2008 at 5:52 am
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do American courts allow you to subpoena evidence that reveals trade secrets of a company for civil matters? i'm guessing the algorithm they use would be proprietary.

As I understand it, when confidential information is discussed the court can do a variety of things, such as closing the court (ie, not open to public) and require parties to sign NDA's and such. They'd certainly argue that though and the subpoenaing attorney would want to brush up on the rules of evidence beforehand of course.
nzgs
nzgs May 13, 2008 at 12:43 am
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oh your IRS is cute in its stupidity.
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 13, 2008 at 5:53 am
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oh your IRS is cute in its stupidity.

Isn't it? It was only in the last 10-15 years or so it was forced to adhere to "innocent until proven guilty" when going after taxpayers. Prior to that it was like any other fascist, police state organization where the taxpayer had to prove his innocence if acused.
tumbleweed
tumbleweed May 13, 2008 at 2:00 am
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Argumentation also applies to gilselling companies, its the very same logic. The real question is if a court would acknowledge wow-gold as an actual value when it is defined (by blizzard) as having no real-life value.
Second Life is different since the in-game currency is already tied to dollars by definition.
Klynx
Klynx May 13, 2008 at 4:43 am
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Whether or not Blizzard "defines" it as having no value doesn't matter - as it is now, most large servers have a conversion rate of ~30 dollars to 1,000 gold if players are individually selling it.  It IS sold for that, regardless of the definition.  And on a very large scale.
Zapatos
Zapatos May 13, 2008 at 5:14 am
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but if Blizzard changed dailies reward to 10000g / quest, all the gold currently in-game would become nigh-worthless
Klynx
Klynx May 13, 2008 at 5:27 am
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"but if Blizzard changed dailies reward to 10000g / quest, all the gold currently in-game would become nigh-worthless"

But they haven't and they won't, so the current value of 1,000 gold is still ~30 dollars.  See how that works? 

"If the US mints printed 5 bajillion hundred dollar bills and dropped them out of crop dusting planes across the nation the dollar would become worthless.  But they won't do that, same thing.

If the queen had balls, she'd be a king.
Zapatos
Zapatos May 14, 2008 at 6:05 am
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Obviously this was an extreme example, but in virtual economies, the company that creates the MMO can drastically alter the value of things w/o any "real world" repercussions. Example, in Asheron's Call, Shadow Armor was worth a fortune for a really long time. Turbine releases a patch that includes armor tinkering, which can make regular armor way stronger than shadow armor ever was. Overnight, shadow armor was suddenly worthless. So yes, the company does define the value of items in the game.
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 14, 2008 at 1:14 pm
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Obviously this was an extreme example, but in virtual economies, the company that creates the MMO can drastically alter the value of things w/o any "real world" repercussions.

Correct, but that is a game wide environmental change that doesn't single out individual players and deprive them of their property.  It's not much different than auto companies releasing new models each year which reduces the value of the previous year's model. A far cry from confiscating the cars of existing customers on the basis of "we said so".
tumbleweed
tumbleweed May 13, 2008 at 5:38 am
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Drugs are also sold for huge sums, but will get destroyed after police raids. Selling gold is not illegal, but the situation is similar.
One could argue that by accepting the TOS, you also agreed that gold has no monetary value by accepting to not engage in real-life trade.
Klynx
Klynx May 13, 2008 at 5:54 am
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What scale?  What if your friend wants 1k gold? 

"Sure, for 15 bucks!"

Would you ban a casual transaction?  At what scale of selling is it bannable?  Why is gold you earn legitimately not able to be sold?
tumbleweed
tumbleweed May 13, 2008 at 6:08 am
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Don't misinterpret what I'm writing - I am not arguing for it to be any way or the other. I honestly do not know which view is valid or correct.

But - if any and all real-life trades involving wow-gold are forbidden by the TOS, the scale and procurement of that gold are irrelevant.
And even if that TOS would not hold up before a court it would still be irrelevant - either the TOS will grant Blizzard the right to void your account and destroy all that gold that you acquired in a way they deem wrong, or the TOS in itself cannot do such a thing and all real-life trade is allowed.
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 13, 2008 at 6:38 am
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either the TOS will grant Blizzard the right to void your account and destroy all that gold that you acquired in a way they deem wrong, or the TOS in itself cannot do such a thing and all real-life trade is allowed

I would like to see this litigated and clear up the legal ambiguity.
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 13, 2008 at 6:11 am
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Why is gold you earn legitimately not able to be sold?

Because right now virtual property is a grey area of the law. If I decide to go on the law review I want to write a legal brief on this.

Here's a fun fact:
Suppose you earn 10k gold legit in game and then sell it for $300.  Blizzard can ban your account but the IRS will require you to report the $300 as income.
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 13, 2008 at 6:01 am
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The real question is if a court would acknowledge wow-gold as an actual value when it is defined (by blizzard) as having no real-life value.

And I could produce a mountain of evidence showing that it does have real life value at a stable exchange rate.  For fun I could bring a laptop into the court (assuming it would go to trial of course) and let the jury see gold seller spam just standing in Org. WoW gold is more stable than Venezuelan currency at this point.
tumbleweed
tumbleweed May 13, 2008 at 6:14 am
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I posted this before - a lot of things have a monetary value attached to them that are still illegal to sell or trade.
The question is not if gold can be exchanged into dollars (I never argued with that), but if a court would acknowledge its nature of being something of worth - after all you are playing their game, according to the rules that you accepted, also accepting that Blizzard can come in and kill your account and your entrepreneurial spirit in the process.
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 13, 2008 at 6:41 am
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but if a court would acknowledge its nature of being something of worth - after all you are playing their game, according to the rules that you accepted

I'd be surprised if any court would acknowledge that virtual property doesn't have real value.  The question would be if the court is willing to extend standard real property law protection to virtual property. I personally think it's way past time, but the courts may be understandably reluctant to do what the legislature has yet to do.
tumbleweed
tumbleweed May 13, 2008 at 6:55 am
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Would the virtual goods even be the users property then ? After all, when you play a game of monopoly, you don't get to walk away with the game money afterwards.
Roma Victor
Roma Victor May 13, 2008 at 8:35 am
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Would the virtual goods even be the users property then ?

Read today's entry when I have time to finish writing it. I found a case last year in federal court where a plaintiff is suing Second Life after getting banned for selling his virtual property.
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