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 by Roma Victor, Level 49
Last updated at March 16, 2009, 11:32 pm
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The Bottom Line
Based on the numbers compared on AJ between S4 and S5, the US battlegroups have 419,000 less teams participating across all brackets. On average, every US battlegroup and bracket saw a 65% decline in participation. Ouch. I know people may say that participation is lower because not everyone is L80, but even still. 65% lower? That seems incredibly low for slow leveling alone, but pretty accurate anecdotally. 3/4 of my friends no longer arena after participating Seasons 1-4.
The Fix
Some simple fixes that should increase casual participation:
1- Get rid of PR requirements off everything but the current top set/offset pieces.
2- Scrap the godawful blue starter arena set.
3- Allow last season's lower tier gear to be purchasable with gold, or failing that, pure honor at a greatly reduced price.
4- Eliminate PVE gear in arena (okay, this will never happen, but I can dream)
Basically give people a reason to participate without having to grind 400K+ honor to survive more than a few globals. Arena can be lots of fun - make it so that people's first experience is positive and not just getting blown up over and over.
The Raw Data
This wasn't actually what I planned on posting about tonight but the data just floored me. I really don't have anything else to add. The data speaks for itself. Enjoy.
| S4 | S5 | Difference | % Change |
US-Bloodlust |
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Bracket | ~Active Teams | ~Active Teams |
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2v2 | 47117 | 17416 | -29,701 | -63.04% |
3v3 | 18462 | 7013 | -11,449 | -62.01% |
5v5 | 5452 | 1696 | -3,756 | -68.89% |
US-Cyclone |
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Bracket | ~Active Teams | ~Active Teams |
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2v2 | 38317 | 13645 | -24,672 | -64.39% |
3v3 | 15684 | 5170 | -10,514 | -67.04% |
5v5 | 3814 | 1069 | -2,745 | -71.97% |
US-Emberstorm |
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Bracket | ~Active Teams | ~Active Teams |
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2v2 | 15571 | 7967 | -7,604 | -48.83% |
3v3 | 6183 | 2657 | -3,526 | -57.03% |
5v5 | 1491 | 464 | -1,027 | -68.88% |
US-Nightfall |
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Bracket | ~Active Teams | ~Active Teams |
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2v2 | 33710 | 12277 | -21,433 | -63.58% |
3v3 | 13357 | 4579 | -8,778 | -65.72% |
5v5 | 3407 | 908 | -2,499 | -73.35% |
US-Rampage |
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Bracket | ~Active Teams | ~Active Teams |
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2v2 | 37836 | 13100 | -24,736 | -65.38% |
3v3 | 15927 | 4877 | -11,050 | -69.38% |
5v5 | 3670 | 946 | -2,724 | -74.22% |
US-Reckoning |
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Bracket | ~Active Teams | ~Active Teams |
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2v2 | 39582 | 13972 | -25,610 | -64.70% |
3v3 | 16288 | 5370 | -10,918 | -67.03% |
5v5 | 4195 | 1081 | -3,114 | -74.23% |
US-Retaliation |
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Bracket | ~Active Teams | ~Active Teams |
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2v2 | 16393 | 7004 | -9,389 | -57.27% |
3v3 | 6405 | 2383 | -4,022 | -62.79% |
5v5 | 1683 | 420 | -1,263 | -75.04% |
US-Ruin |
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Bracket | ~Active Teams | ~Active Teams |
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2v2 | 42687 | 14378 | -28,309 | -66.32% |
3v3 | 17840 | 5933 | -11,907 | -66.74% |
5v5 | 4703 | 1234 | -3,469 | -73.76% |
US-Shadowburn |
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Bracket | ~Active Teams | ~Active Teams |
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2v2 | 35652 | 13602 | -22,050 | -61.85% |
3v3 | 14169 | 5358 | -8,811 | -62.19% |
5v5 | 3888 | 1093 | -2,795 | -71.89% |
US-Stormstrike |
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Bracket | ~Active Teams | ~Active Teams |
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2v2 | 33253 | 14055 | -19,198 | -57.73% |
3v3 | 13350 | 5414 | -7,936 | -59.45% |
5v5 | 3477 | 1067 | -2,410 | -69.31% |
US-Vengeance |
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Bracket | ~Active Teams | ~Active Teams |
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2v2 | 32240 | 14171 | -18,069 | -56.05% |
3v3 | 12475 | 5193 | -7,282 | -58.37% |
5v5 | 3298 | 982 | -2,316 | -70.22% |
US-Vindication |
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Bracket | ~Active Teams | ~Active Teams |
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2v2 | 39376 | 14352 | -25,024 | -63.55% |
3v3 | 16040 | 5786 | -10,254 | -63.93% |
5v5 | 4116 | 1168 | -2,948 | -71.62% |
US-Whirlwind |
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Bracket | ~Active Teams | ~Active Teams |
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2v2 | 27262 | 9836 | -17,426 | -63.92% |
3v3 | 10782 | 3660 | -7,122 | -66.05% |
5v5 | 2826 | 720 | -2,106 | -74.52% |
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TOTALS: |
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| 419,962 | 65.70% |
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huck Mar 17, 2009 at 12:21 am
+2 votes
He pulled that off AJ so they could very easily have all seasons, or at least the ones they ran a glad calculator (not sure if they did it for season one).
Roma Victor Mar 17, 2009 at 6:32 am
+2 votes
huck said
He pulled that off AJ so they could very easily have all seasons, or at least the ones they ran a glad calculator (not sure if they did it for season one).
Klynx Mar 17, 2009 at 10:20 am
-3 votes
I blame it on that too. I mean - we're talking vengeful blogger Klynx here... and I haven't hit 80 yet on any character because of an alt and RL preventing me from activating wotlk until a few weeks ago.
yeah.
yeah.
Riddler Mar 17, 2009 at 12:24 am
+4 votes
very interesting. what would also be very interesting but very hard to get the data for, is what group of players are quitting arenas in the largest numbers? for example are there less repeat gladiators playing now than in s3/s4 (almost impossible to know due to no dks having a title). or is it the group of people that usually stay in the 1500s or the 1800s?
i just want to know where we see the biggest cut.
i just want to know where we see the biggest cut.
Kodite Mar 26, 2009 at 7:50 am
+1 votes
This would be valuable information.
I sure as hell haven't bothered to take PvP seriously since my Mage has been my main.
I sure as hell haven't bothered to take PvP seriously since my Mage has been my main.
Brooch Fan Mar 17, 2009 at 12:27 am
+9 votes
The highest tier of PvE gear (226) being easier than ever to attain, the argument can go either way:
a) any idiot can get the best gear in game, why not outlaw it
or
b) go pug and get some good rolls or raid consistently for a month or two and get full purps or just the KT weaps, which is a best in slot in arena for veritably 100% of all classes.
I lol'd when I saw the AJ numbers. IMO this easymode pve makes people (ie most of my guild) take their 2+ alts to different naxx runs every week, making arena all the more pointless and easier to ignore. Why bang your head doing arena when you can easily maintain 5 alts in full purples!?
It's really unfortunate how they've raped this game since TBC. It was satisfying doing content that only a fraction of the millions that play get to see, which dare I say required an astronomical amount more effort and preparation even imaginable compared to today's raiding standards. RIP the game as we knew it.
a) any idiot can get the best gear in game, why not outlaw it
or
b) go pug and get some good rolls or raid consistently for a month or two and get full purps or just the KT weaps, which is a best in slot in arena for veritably 100% of all classes.
I lol'd when I saw the AJ numbers. IMO this easymode pve makes people (ie most of my guild) take their 2+ alts to different naxx runs every week, making arena all the more pointless and easier to ignore. Why bang your head doing arena when you can easily maintain 5 alts in full purples!?
It's really unfortunate how they've raped this game since TBC. It was satisfying doing content that only a fraction of the millions that play get to see, which dare I say required an astronomical amount more effort and preparation even imaginable compared to today's raiding standards. RIP the game as we knew it.
Yvel Mar 17, 2009 at 12:37 am
+2 votes
I might of missed this so correct if I am wrong. Did you take into account that people are no longer team swapping and are being limited to one team per bracket? I know I had over 10 teams I would rotate on between my rogue in previous seasons. This could lead to skewed numbers.
Roma Victor Mar 17, 2009 at 6:35 am
+1 votes
Did you take into account that people are no longer team swapping and are being limited to one team per bracket?
That's a good point, in that if you had multiple active teams and now you only have one the numbers would be artificially inflated. Even so, I doubt 65% of the current players were all players from previous seasons down to one team.
That's a good point, in that if you had multiple active teams and now you only have one the numbers would be artificially inflated. Even so, I doubt 65% of the current players were all players from previous seasons down to one team.
Abdoom Mar 17, 2009 at 9:18 am
+1 votes
It is easier to team swap now than it was in season 4 thanks to the hidden rating, then again this means remaking teams is also pointless and 900 rated players still get their 300 points at the end of the week after going 0-10.
Hushpuppy Mar 17, 2009 at 12:44 am
+13 votes
Not surprising at all.
- The new arena system
- Deathknights
- Damage being too high
- 3-4 Classes being deemed useless due to Deathknights instead of the typical 1-2. (Druids, Mages, Warriors, Rogues)
-Overall class balance.
If they simply remove Deathknights (they won't, but I can also dream), and magnify Resilience they'll be helping this game exponentially.
But they won't, because they want money, not quality.
Good night.
- The new arena system
- Deathknights
- Damage being too high
- 3-4 Classes being deemed useless due to Deathknights instead of the typical 1-2. (Druids, Mages, Warriors, Rogues)
-Overall class balance.
If they simply remove Deathknights (they won't, but I can also dream), and magnify Resilience they'll be helping this game exponentially.
But they won't, because they want money, not quality.
Good night.
El Conando Mar 17, 2009 at 1:10 am
+4 votes
Next Season, regarding your desired fixes Blizzard has already announced:
1. Mid Tier Gear, i.e. Deadly gear will be available at ratings starting at 1350-1550, or Emblems of Conquest
2 &3 . Low Tier Gear, i.e. Hateful is purchasable by honor/ Emblems of Valor
4. Not going to happen
My Personal Experience Playing Arenas when I started on my Mage:
1. The 1500s in this season is what used to be the 1600s-early 1700s last season, since all the previous 1400-1500 rated players stopped playing
2. The Hateful gear is really out of grasp for the vast majority of players. If you sustain a few losses early on for whatever reason(like not being familiar with DKs or whatever), your Match-making rating (MMR) gets dragged down somewhere in the low 1400s. To get back to the 1600s after a bad start for the first pieces of deadly gear in a reasonable time frame, you have to sustain a win rate of about 90%. If you can't do that (say you play a really sub-optimal comp) even with a 2:1 W/L ratio, increasing you rating becomes extremely ardous, due to the massive ratings you lose due to losses.
1. Mid Tier Gear, i.e. Deadly gear will be available at ratings starting at 1350-1550, or Emblems of Conquest
2 &3 . Low Tier Gear, i.e. Hateful is purchasable by honor/ Emblems of Valor
4. Not going to happen
My Personal Experience Playing Arenas when I started on my Mage:
1. The 1500s in this season is what used to be the 1600s-early 1700s last season, since all the previous 1400-1500 rated players stopped playing
2. The Hateful gear is really out of grasp for the vast majority of players. If you sustain a few losses early on for whatever reason(like not being familiar with DKs or whatever), your Match-making rating (MMR) gets dragged down somewhere in the low 1400s. To get back to the 1600s after a bad start for the first pieces of deadly gear in a reasonable time frame, you have to sustain a win rate of about 90%. If you can't do that (say you play a really sub-optimal comp) even with a 2:1 W/L ratio, increasing you rating becomes extremely ardous, due to the massive ratings you lose due to losses.
greenmachine Mar 17, 2009 at 1:15 am
+7 votes
Arena sucks. I hate it. And making the gear way harder to get just made it even worse. Having said that... I'd still love for a year round tournament realm where they provide all the gear for you and you can play any class you want at max level. I can't ******* stand leveling and I'm bored with my current class and there's no way in hell I'm rerolling from level 1 to 80. That's just not ******* happening, It would would take me half a year to do that playing almost every day. As it stands now I'm going to quit the game out of boredom. The only way I'd keep playing is if they opened a permanent automatic max level realim with premade characters.
Roma Victor Mar 17, 2009 at 6:37 am
+6 votes
I'd still love for a year round tournament realm where they provide all the gear for you and you can play any class you want at max level. I can't ******* stand leveling and I'm bored with my current class and there's no way in hell I'm rerolling from level 1 to 80.
Yeah, I'd love that as well. The rerolling/leveling is pure hell.
Yeah, I'd love that as well. The rerolling/leveling is pure hell.
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