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by axiom, Level 33
Last updated at November 5, 2008, 2:10 am
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I know we're not supposed to post political blogs here, but this is probably the most important thing I've ever been a part of, so I had to say something! WE DID IT!!!! Somehow we weathered the storm of the last 8 years without losing hope and faith in the spirit of America.
GG
* President-ELECT Barack Obama.

283 comments
axiom Nov 5, 2008 at 2:21 am
+1 votes
Hahaha you know it's only a matter of time before Joe the Plumber has his own reality show :-P
oradol Nov 5, 2008 at 8:42 am
+1 votes
Yeah. Great idea imo, elect people who don't understand basic tax policy.
Riddler Nov 5, 2008 at 11:40 am
+1 votes
i thought it was funny when he started talking foreign policy too.
Chisea Nov 5, 2008 at 10:22 am
+1 votes
To be American is then to be white? Is that what you're saying? I thought America was founded based upon things like equality and freedom speech. "Hussein campaign"? Supports terrorists and is a communist? Give me definite proof that he literally supports terrorists (no, his name being the same as a former dictator does not count) and that he is a communist (and no, increasing taxes for those with higher income does not make him a communist).
Â
Â
Korgathishere Nov 5, 2008 at 11:38 am
+1 votes
Let me correct my comment about ACORN tomake it more clear. I didn't mean to imply that William Ayers created that particular organization. I was trying to make the point that Project Vote was a sister organization of ACORN.
Korgathishere Nov 5, 2008 at 12:05 pm
-4 votes
Here's some more links to give you more information about the content in my comment.
Here's a video about the LA times covering up a video of Obama attending a Khalidi toast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c0LylEV4z0
Here's an article about the Weather Underground planning to kill 25 million Americans.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/eyewitness-to-the-ayers-revolution/
Audio tape of Obama making Marxist remarks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck
More information on the Khalidi / Obama relationship and how the LA times tried to cover it up.
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/confirmed-msm-holds-video-of-barack.html
More on Khalidi.
http://sandbox.blog-city.com/khalidi_of_the_plo.htm
A video complilation of some of Obama's Marxist-esqe remarks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akLlxxWaJZM
A video on the Ayers / Obama connection.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvROBLortBQ
Obama giving a gushing review of William Ayers book.
http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=64
There you go.
Here's a video about the LA times covering up a video of Obama attending a Khalidi toast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c0LylEV4z0
Here's an article about the Weather Underground planning to kill 25 million Americans.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/eyewitness-to-the-ayers-revolution/
Audio tape of Obama making Marxist remarks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck
More information on the Khalidi / Obama relationship and how the LA times tried to cover it up.
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/confirmed-msm-holds-video-of-barack.html
More on Khalidi.
http://sandbox.blog-city.com/khalidi_of_the_plo.htm
A video complilation of some of Obama's Marxist-esqe remarks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akLlxxWaJZM
A video on the Ayers / Obama connection.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvROBLortBQ
Obama giving a gushing review of William Ayers book.
http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=64
There you go.
Rioter Nov 5, 2008 at 11:38 am
+1 votes
You don't "snort crack" you nut job. If you can't even get the basics of a long mocked drug right, how much else did you **** up in this essay?
Korgathishere Nov 5, 2008 at 12:38 pm
-1 votes
Go ahead and down vote me. You elected a terrorist supporting communist without doing any research. I guess that says a lot about his supporters.
NyeT Nov 5, 2008 at 6:55 pm
+1 votes
Chisea, you're a moron. You do realize equality means NOT VOTING FOR SOMEONE BECAUSE THEY ARE BLACK? Or making a big deal out of someone because they're the first black president. ******* idiot democrat and your ass backwards standards that make no ******* sense. If you believe in equality, then you shouldn't need to put so much emphasis on race. The simple fact is you don't and you're a hypocritical idiot.
Nobahd Nov 5, 2008 at 2:45 am
+0 votes
seriously, I bet the rest of world is more excited than Murica
Godsmak Nov 5, 2008 at 11:03 am
+1 votes
yup, countries like Iran, Pakistan, Russia, N. Korea and China all now know we got a ***** for a President.
Karisizzle Nov 5, 2008 at 2:29 am
-1 votes
having just moved to the states from australia, i'm absolutely stoked obama got in, ******* great stuff! =D
TeeKoo Nov 5, 2008 at 11:29 am
+0 votes
good one, except that "somebody had to say it." totally ruins it
Qlimax Nov 5, 2008 at 3:13 am
+1 votes
Axiom
Birthday:
August 19, 1982
Wasn't Reagan the best president America ever had? From what little I know, Clinton was a good president too.
**** THAT WENT WRONG. WHY DID IT **** UP GOD. Why cant I delete stuff, god I hate this text editor.
Birthday:
August 19, 1982
| Â |
Wasn't Reagan the best president America ever had? From what little I know, Clinton was a good president too.
**** THAT WENT WRONG. WHY DID IT **** UP GOD. Why cant I delete stuff, god I hate this text editor.
axiom Nov 5, 2008 at 3:20 am
+0 votes
I can't tell if you're being serious or not! Reagan nearly destroyed this country with his theory of trickle-down economics, which basically bankrupt the middle class (and therefore the country). Clinton was a good president, but could've done a lot more than he did.
Obama is in a league that can really only be shared with JFK and FDR, yet perhaps even more inspirational and generation-defining.Â
Obama is in a league that can really only be shared with JFK and FDR, yet perhaps even more inspirational and generation-defining.Â
Incarna Nov 5, 2008 at 3:28 am
+1 votes
Before your hero can change the world he has to deal with some serious econimcal problems.
oPlaiD Nov 5, 2008 at 3:46 am
+4 votes
Obama is inspirational but he has yet to actually DO anything. It's crazy to compare him with JFK and FDR at this juncture - he has the charisma, but he has to execute, too.
Hopefully in a few years those comparisons are valid.
Hopefully in a few years those comparisons are valid.
Zenbot Nov 5, 2008 at 3:44 am
+0 votes
The same FDR, who imprisoned over a hundred thousand Japanese-Americans in camps. The US economy was turned around by the War, not by any of his inane statist policies. JFK was in power for a few years, so I fail to see how he was generationally defining, particularly as his own party filibustered the civil rights act.
As for economic theories, you glibly opine about "trickle-down economics". This indicates that you are a hardcore democrat. I will enjoy watching people like you pretend,over the coming weeks, to care about unifying your fractured country.
I look forward to your retort contradicting basic economic laws, and suggesting the same protectionism that failed for so long here in Europe.
As for economic theories, you glibly opine about "trickle-down economics". This indicates that you are a hardcore democrat. I will enjoy watching people like you pretend,over the coming weeks, to care about unifying your fractured country.
I look forward to your retort contradicting basic economic laws, and suggesting the same protectionism that failed for so long here in Europe.
oradol Nov 5, 2008 at 9:02 am
+0 votes
While I don't agree in the imprisonment, it's still widely agreed that it was also in the best interest for many of those Japanese.
Take trickle down economics. It's comparable to feeding mice by giving a dog food and them eating what he leaves behind. Sure if you give the dog more food it will benefit the mice, but it will disproportionately benefit the dog.
It is not basic economic law. It's theory that sits basically at the opposite end of the table facing redistribution of wealth, which has significant footing in microeconomic law. But wait, I thought you were the economics expert?
Take trickle down economics. It's comparable to feeding mice by giving a dog food and them eating what he leaves behind. Sure if you give the dog more food it will benefit the mice, but it will disproportionately benefit the dog.
It is not basic economic law. It's theory that sits basically at the opposite end of the table facing redistribution of wealth, which has significant footing in microeconomic law. But wait, I thought you were the economics expert?
Zenbot Nov 6, 2008 at 12:05 am
+1 votes
I see your point pertaining trickle down theory. However, I never said it was an economic law.
Pertaining your comments on trickle down theory. Who is in charge of the feeding? Where does this dog get his food from? Did he/she work to acquire the food? Does the food then belong to them?
Is the food supply limited?
What is redistribution of wealth? What is an acceptable amount of money for an average citizen to have? Is it the job of the government to decide that? Are their liberty related ramifications to such judgements?
Pertaining your comments on trickle down theory. Who is in charge of the feeding? Where does this dog get his food from? Did he/she work to acquire the food? Does the food then belong to them?
Is the food supply limited?
What is redistribution of wealth? What is an acceptable amount of money for an average citizen to have? Is it the job of the government to decide that? Are their liberty related ramifications to such judgements?
oradol Nov 6, 2008 at 9:21 am
+1 votes
Sorry, I thought your comment about "basic economic laws" referred specifically to trickle down theory.
You raise some very good points that have bugged economists for years. I love economics because it's a science that you can endlessly theorize but can never entirely experiment with. Unfortunately the dog analogy can't be reasonably taken beyond what I used it for so I won't really try. The food supply is limited though, so you have to ask yourself who deserves the food more.
Economists have been bothered for a long time trying to measure a person's marginal contribution to society. There is a lot of debate as to the contributions of, say, a house cleaner. If she is cleaning the house of a man who makes $50 000 000 a year and saves him 5% of his time every day, what is her contribution? Is it worth more than the 30 000k she makes a year? There are so many factors that come into play it's very hard to say. How many other people could fill his job? There are very strong arguments that if you took the top 5% of the income earners out of society (except doctors) you wouldn't see a loss in productivity equal to the difference in salaries when compared to those in the bottom 5%. Barriers to entry and social networking throw a lot of economics out the window.
Redistribution of wealth is, as you insinuate, a slippery slope. You're working on the premise that you can't measure anyones direct contribution to society, so you're going to instead make the point of trying to reasonably decide when one person's marginal benefit from their earnings is reduced to the point where they can pay an increased rate on that and not lose benefit. This is the "marginal utility" concept from microeconomics. 100 years ago this wasn't necessary. Increasing goods production meant more jobs for working class. With manufacturing being shipped out of the country, the investment becomes foreign and while it might lead to cheaper goods too much is being shifted elsewhere.
If they don't want to raise taxes on the wealthy and balance wealth, they'd need to tarriff and quota imported goods. This leads to a net societal productivity loss though, which is why it fails harder. Free trade and higher tax on upper brackets > regulated trade and no higher tax. If the government really wanted to fix wealth distribution problems the solution would be to greatly increase funding for post-secondary education and crack down on illegal immigration.
You raise some very good points that have bugged economists for years. I love economics because it's a science that you can endlessly theorize but can never entirely experiment with. Unfortunately the dog analogy can't be reasonably taken beyond what I used it for so I won't really try. The food supply is limited though, so you have to ask yourself who deserves the food more.
Economists have been bothered for a long time trying to measure a person's marginal contribution to society. There is a lot of debate as to the contributions of, say, a house cleaner. If she is cleaning the house of a man who makes $50 000 000 a year and saves him 5% of his time every day, what is her contribution? Is it worth more than the 30 000k she makes a year? There are so many factors that come into play it's very hard to say. How many other people could fill his job? There are very strong arguments that if you took the top 5% of the income earners out of society (except doctors) you wouldn't see a loss in productivity equal to the difference in salaries when compared to those in the bottom 5%. Barriers to entry and social networking throw a lot of economics out the window.
Redistribution of wealth is, as you insinuate, a slippery slope. You're working on the premise that you can't measure anyones direct contribution to society, so you're going to instead make the point of trying to reasonably decide when one person's marginal benefit from their earnings is reduced to the point where they can pay an increased rate on that and not lose benefit. This is the "marginal utility" concept from microeconomics. 100 years ago this wasn't necessary. Increasing goods production meant more jobs for working class. With manufacturing being shipped out of the country, the investment becomes foreign and while it might lead to cheaper goods too much is being shifted elsewhere.
If they don't want to raise taxes on the wealthy and balance wealth, they'd need to tarriff and quota imported goods. This leads to a net societal productivity loss though, which is why it fails harder. Free trade and higher tax on upper brackets > regulated trade and no higher tax. If the government really wanted to fix wealth distribution problems the solution would be to greatly increase funding for post-secondary education and crack down on illegal immigration.
Qlimax Nov 5, 2008 at 3:45 am
+1 votes
He might be in that highly prestigious league shared with JFK...
Korgathishere Nov 5, 2008 at 10:39 am
+0 votes
What the hell are you talking about? Our economy grew by over 20% during the Reagan administration. The only reason the liberals hate him so much and brainwashed you with their propoganda is because they care more about "fairness" than growth and because he was openly hostile to the Soviet Union and thought we should kick their ass rather than appease them like the liberals wanted. The average family income grew by over $6,000 during his administration and unemployment plummeted. "Trickle down economics" works. It worked in Reagan's America and in Thatcher's Britain. Both economies were on the verge of collapse before they made Keynesian reforms. Maybe you should open a book that wasn't written by Noam Chomsky. The only thing Reagan screwed up was our debt.
Stop posting.
Stop posting.
dub Nov 5, 2008 at 10:44 am
+0 votes
"Our economy grew by over 20% during the Reagan administration [...] The only thing Reagan screwed up was our debt."
Do you see a connection? Every government can boost the economy by mounting dept. Your education really is in the toilet, isn't it?
Do you see a connection? Every government can boost the economy by mounting dept. Your education really is in the toilet, isn't it?
Vir Nov 5, 2008 at 11:17 am
+1 votes
Do you see a connection? Every government can boost the economy by mounting dept. Your education really is in the toilet, isn't it?
You can, until nobody will buy your debt anymore. Â Then the shell game ends.
dub Nov 5, 2008 at 11:22 am
+0 votes
"You can, until nobody will buy your debt anymore. Then the shell game ends."
Yep, some fun times ahead.. have you seen this?
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crash-course/chapter-1-three-beliefs
nothing terribly new, but still well explained.
Yep, some fun times ahead.. have you seen this?
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crash-course/chapter-1-three-beliefs
nothing terribly new, but still well explained.
Vir Nov 5, 2008 at 11:27 am
+3 votes
oh ******* god. Â CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE.
This guy is annoying.
Ok, I'm on the second point, at least he's interesting here.
Arrrg peak oil, ******* wingnut.
CLIMATE CHANGE! Â LOLOLOL
Awesome a socialist doomer. Â Â
This guy is annoying.
Ok, I'm on the second point, at least he's interesting here.
Arrrg peak oil, ******* wingnut.
CLIMATE CHANGE! Â LOLOLOL
Awesome a socialist doomer. Â Â
dub Nov 5, 2008 at 11:34 am
+1 votes
Wingnut? Socialist doomer? Be careful to not hit the wall to your right, Vir. He might not be 100% accurate, his key concept (exponential growth, chapter 3) is sill true.
Vir Nov 5, 2008 at 11:44 am
+1 votes
I'm watching it again now, had to pause to make a blog post.  I agree with the demographic/financial stuff for the most part.  I'm so/so on peak oil.  I do think it's a plausible theory (after all, we've got to run out sometime!) but OTOH it seems over-hyped.  Especially since all of these guys were screaming they were right a few months ago when gas was at $4 and now gas is down around $2.
Â
Â
Vir Nov 5, 2008 at 1:00 pm
+1 votes
sometimes you need to put it drastic to make people listen.
Ok, he's wrong on the demographic growth stuff.  The same way that population growth can grow exponentially, it also implodes exponentially.  It's actually harder to stop an implosion because you have people to work with.
 The developed world is seeing populations under the replacement rate, that means they're imploding.  Even countries over the replacement rate like India and the various muslim countries see their birthrates going down. Â
Even the UN has come to admit that a population burst could be a problem in 25-50 years. Â
His relationship of oil use to demographic increases is also misleading. Â If the total population of the civilized world drops, oil usage will as well. Â They're not riding to the mall in hummers in all those third world countries. Â
Â
dub Nov 5, 2008 at 1:23 pm
+1 votes
first of all our planet is already ridiculously overpopulated considering we can't even feed all of those people with the oil-driven economy we have today (in fact we could feed them, but nobody wants to pay for it.. pretty much the same). Now imagine oil demand doesn't drop, because we can't come up with a decent replacement and population continues to grow worldwide.. then what? While the demand in NA, EU and Asia-Pacific might drop, there are enough emerging markets to take over. Also, their citizens jump each other like rabbits, so a decline in overall population isn't really in sight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_fertility_rate
(i.e. India dropped from 3.11 to 2.81 in 8 years, still well above replacement rate)
Not to mention how we currently exploit our enviroment.
I don't see it as dramatic as him, but being aware that status quo might not be the best road to future prosperity doesn't hurt. Foresight is another reason to support Obama as a non-American.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_fertility_rate
(i.e. India dropped from 3.11 to 2.81 in 8 years, still well above replacement rate)
Not to mention how we currently exploit our enviroment.
I don't see it as dramatic as him, but being aware that status quo might not be the best road to future prosperity doesn't hurt. Foresight is another reason to support Obama as a non-American.
Vir Nov 5, 2008 at 1:41 pm
+1 votes
first of all our planet is already ridiculously overpopulated considering we can't even feed all of those people with the oil-driven economy we have today (in fact we could feed them, but nobody wants to pay for it.. pretty much the same).
Ok, so we can both agree that we COULD feed everyone on the planet today.  That is not "Pretty much the same" as if we had so many people on the planet that it was mathematically/logistically impossible to do so.
Now imagine oil demand doesn't drop, because we can't come up with a decent replacement and population continues to grow worldwide.. then what? While the demand in NA, EU and Asia-Pacific might drop, there are enough emerging markets to take over.
(i.e. India dropped from 3.11 to 2.81 in 8 years, still well above replacement rate)
If you look at China, it's under replacement, and india is a good example of a country with a declining population rate, which is amazing considering how rural some sections still are.  There appears to be a balance.  When countries modernize, birthrates drop and they use more oil. Â
Also, if you look at the birthrate for the world, it's dropping. Â Hell, the world might end up under replacement rate in 10-20 years. Â That is pretty scary. Â Consider what the video you linked says about exponential numbers, and apply it to a population implosion.
Also, their citizens jump each other like rabbits, so a decline in overall population isn't really in sight.
The more modern they become, the less kids they have. Â It evens out in a way.
If Barack had any foresight he'd be calling for the US to cut federal government spending rather than increasing it.  Our politicians have no problem with committing America to fiscal suicide if it gets them elected, and Obama has proven himself no different. Â
If european non-Americans were concerned with foresight, they'd start fornicating. Â Â
Ok, so we can both agree that we COULD feed everyone on the planet today.  That is not "Pretty much the same" as if we had so many people on the planet that it was mathematically/logistically impossible to do so.
Now imagine oil demand doesn't drop, because we can't come up with a decent replacement and population continues to grow worldwide.. then what? While the demand in NA, EU and Asia-Pacific might drop, there are enough emerging markets to take over.
(i.e. India dropped from 3.11 to 2.81 in 8 years, still well above replacement rate)
If you look at China, it's under replacement, and india is a good example of a country with a declining population rate, which is amazing considering how rural some sections still are.  There appears to be a balance.  When countries modernize, birthrates drop and they use more oil. Â
Also, if you look at the birthrate for the world, it's dropping. Â Hell, the world might end up under replacement rate in 10-20 years. Â That is pretty scary. Â Consider what the video you linked says about exponential numbers, and apply it to a population implosion.
Also, their citizens jump each other like rabbits, so a decline in overall population isn't really in sight.
The more modern they become, the less kids they have. Â It evens out in a way.
I don't see it as dramatic as him, but being aware that status quo might not be the best road to future prosperity doesn't hurt. Foresight is another reason to support Obama as a non-American.
If Barack had any foresight he'd be calling for the US to cut federal government spending rather than increasing it.  Our politicians have no problem with committing America to fiscal suicide if it gets them elected, and Obama has proven himself no different. Â
If european non-Americans were concerned with foresight, they'd start fornicating. Â Â
dub Nov 5, 2008 at 3:58 pm
+1 votes
"Ok, so we can both agree that we COULD feed everyone on the planet today. That is not "Pretty much the same" as if we had so many people on the planet that it was mathematically/logistically impossible to do so."
It's pretty much the same, because while we don't want to afford it today, we might not be able to do so at all in the future. Today's situation won't get any better, that's the point.
"Hell, the world might end up under replacement rate in 10-20 years. That is pretty scary."
I wouldn't bet my money on that one.. it could go either way, maybe China quits its one child policy or w/e
"If Barack had any foresight he'd be calling for the US to cut federal government spending rather than increasing it."
How about government spending to somewhat address unemployment until business activity goes up again? Your infrastructur comes to mind.
"If european non-Americans were concerned with foresight, they'd start fornicating."
lol'd
It's pretty much the same, because while we don't want to afford it today, we might not be able to do so at all in the future. Today's situation won't get any better, that's the point.
"Hell, the world might end up under replacement rate in 10-20 years. That is pretty scary."
I wouldn't bet my money on that one.. it could go either way, maybe China quits its one child policy or w/e
"If Barack had any foresight he'd be calling for the US to cut federal government spending rather than increasing it."
How about government spending to somewhat address unemployment until business activity goes up again? Your infrastructur comes to mind.
"If european non-Americans were concerned with foresight, they'd start fornicating."
lol'd
Godsmak Nov 5, 2008 at 11:05 am
-1 votes
You're such a ******* idiot you must be trolling.
Obama is in a league that can really only be shared with JFK and FDR,
yet perhaps even more inspirational and generation-defining.
What the **** has Obama done? Dude seriously, I applaud this troll.
Obama is in a league that can really only be shared with JFK and FDR,
yet perhaps even more inspirational and generation-defining.
What the **** has Obama done? Dude seriously, I applaud this troll.
Godsmak Nov 5, 2008 at 3:19 pm
+1 votes
Let me guess, you're black and you voted for Obama because he's black (half-white actually).
I'd say YOU LOSE but that means I lose too, so, AMERICA LOSES
I'd say YOU LOSE but that means I lose too, so, AMERICA LOSES
Lipton Nov 5, 2008 at 3:42 pm
+0 votes
Reagan was a horrible president, he was the inventor of the bull**** that is trickle down economics, which doesn't and never has... worked.
Hotaruz Nov 5, 2008 at 3:29 am
-1 votes
No political post! goshhhhhhhh but really its only half of a special day since he is only half black



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