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 by hogart, Level 12
Last updated at January 11, 2009, 11:34 am
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This is my first blog entry here at Gameriot, and probably my last as well. It won't be anything fancy.
The Hogart Day is simply about this forum post: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=7575918778&sid=1
If you can't be arsed to click it (or read it at the very bottom), its basically about how I...
...today somehow realised something with Viper Sting and Chimera Shot without being an actual victim of the cause. In Arenas the combo will be completely devastating vs. RMP and other comps without any form of poison cleanse at their disposal. Viper Sting constantly being up between the Priest and Mage throughout the fight, roughly draining 15k mana a minute. An example of this is illustrated in my post, that is if you care enough to read it.
I don't know if devs even glance at our official EU forums. And in this regard, Gameriot instantly came to my mind. The US forums might be a better place for it to get noticed in time.
If someone believe I'm even remotely right. If someone actually even cares. If that someone exists, and also can be arsed to just copy, pate on us forums, and link to my original post. Then maybe something will happen in time. If it's even necessary, maybe I'm just utterly wrong on the matter. I might have missed something being implemented to fix this. But I don't think I have.
This post might be a bit over-informative for the average Gamerioter, but it's not for the average wower.
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Let me tell you that I'm solely making this post to illustrate the use of Viper Sting together with Chimera Shot in Arenas. If you want to discuss it in another setting than Arenas, don't do it in this thread.
First off, lets read the description of the two abilities mentioned.
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Viper Sting Rank 5:
5 - 35 yd range. Instant cast. 15 sec cooldown.
Stings the target, draining 3092 mana over 8 sec. Only one Sting per Hunter can be active on any one target.
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This is an effective 773 mana drained from the target every two seconds. With 720 resilience (my current value) this amount is reduced down to 624 mana. Therefore 624 is the value I will use in my example posted below.
--- Chimera Shot Rank 1:
5 - 35 yd range. Instant cast. 10 sec cooldown.
You deal 125% weapon damage, refreshing the current Sting on your target and triggering an effect:
· Viper Sting - Instantly restores mana to you equal to 60% of the total amount drained by your Viper Sting.
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I did not include what Chimera Shot does with other stings than Viper Sting, since we are focusing on the triggered effect of Chimera Shot on Viper Sting and nothing else.
Now when we have all read what the two abilities in question actually do, lets illustrate this in an example below. But first, let me explain to you what the **** I mean by what I have written in my example.
The numbers on the far left will illustrate seconds, counting the duration of a Viper Sting on you in an arena game. The numbers (in paranthesis) will try to illustrate the renewed seconds of said Viper Sting by a Chimaera Shot or a new Viper Sting.
Now, read that again so you fully understand my retarded explanation of what I'm trying to illustrate with this post.
Done? Good! Here we go:
00 You are effected by Viper Sting.
01
02 Viper Sting drains 624 mana from you.
03
04 Viper Sting drains 624 mana from you.
05
06 Viper Sting drains 624 mana from you.
07 (0) You are effected by Chimera Shot. Viper Sting is renewed.
08 (1)
09 (2) Viper Sting drains 624 mana from you.
10 (3)
11 (4) Viper Sting drains 624 mana from you.
12 (5)
13 (6) Viper Sting drains 624 mana from you.
14 (7)
15 (
Viper Sting drains 624 mana from you. Viper Sting fades from you. Hunter's Viper Sting is ready. 16 (0) You are effected by Viper Sting.
17 (1) Chimera Shot is Ready.
18 (2) Viper Sting drains 624 mana from you.
19 (3)
20 (4)Viper Sting drains 624 mana from you.
21 (5)
22 (6) Viper Sting drains 624 mana from you.
23 (7) You are effected by Chimera Shot.
624 x 10 = 6240 mana drained in 22 seconds.
Lets roughen out these numbers a bit and say 5000 mana is drained in 20 seconds. That is a stunning 15000 mana drained per minute.
Most of you are probably thinking "but Viper Sting is a poison, just cure it!"
One problem. I'm a Priest, if I were any other healer I could, but I can't.
Everything up to now have been facts. Now I'll share my own ideas about this:
I don't know how this will turn out in Arenas. Every Hunter in his right mind atm is BM specced, so we probably won't see the peak of MM Hunters in a while. But when they start showing up in arenas, when BM is hit by the nerfbat, what are setups without the ability to cure poisons going to do? Any caster will hands down be drained to zero in one minute, taking into consideration you actually need cast any of you own spells in that timeframe.
The obvious problem to me is... the timeframe of drains never ends.
[Edit: Oh and since someone very special to me so profoundly pointed out to me that I should actually give a suggestion to the problem as well, as to not merely presenting the problem at hand, I will.]
Giving priests a protection vs. this type of problem might be possible through various ways.
1. The first thing that comes to mind, would simply be to give Priests a type of poison cleanse. And since we currently are the only class ingame without this ability, at first sight it doesn't seem to much to ask for. But then we might be to strong vs. Rogues. So maybe option two would be better.
2. Giving us a self buff / spell to reduce effectiveness of poison effects on ourselves. This would reduce drain effects, but also effect other poisons such as wound / cripple / mind numbing. Since we would still not be able to completely cleanse a poison, or even reduce its effectiveness on others, only on ourselves, this seems like a viable option, if not more viable. Stone Skin comes to mind (dwarf racial), but I understand copying is out of the question. I can't come up with more at this instant. Start giving more examples for Blizzard to work with. If they even consider this an issue, who knows?
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Again, a link to my original thread: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=7575918778&sid=1
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hogart Jan 11, 2009 at 1:17 pm
+1 votes
Or you can fully read my post before you write something that is very much not true.
Alsn Jan 12, 2009 at 1:51 am
+4 votes
No offence but as soon as the fight actually starts there is absolutely nothing you can do as a priest to keep viper sting off you against a competent hunter. Both viper and chimaera shot are instant and have a very long range. Trying to LOS it would also keep you from being able to do anything against anyone that is anywhere near the hunter(f.e. your team mates).
All in all though, of course you can LOS a hunter but at what cost?
All in all though, of course you can LOS a hunter but at what cost?
Fingerprints Jan 11, 2009 at 5:48 pm
+1 votes
Granted it adds more flexibility with Viper Stings, BUT ain't like Viper Sting ITSELFÂ is a new ability now is it?
ONOH 1 Hunter having Viper on 2 targets = OP :P
ONOH 1 Hunter having Viper on 2 targets = OP :P
resilve Jan 11, 2009 at 6:06 pm
+1 votes
The hunter takes quite a big damage loss from not using serpent sting and Chimera - Serpent, but I do agree that it is OP against non-cleansing classes. If the initial viper is cleansed fast/dwarf priest then the entire chain falls down, the chimera can only renew a sting that has not been removed, so it only rapes priests and not other classes with poison removal (who of course it should destroy people who dont cleanse it).
However isnt it getting changed to a % rate of the targets mana rather than a flat number like you say? To compensate for ret pala and holy pala having vastly different mana pools - Forgive me if that has already gone through tho.
However isnt it getting changed to a % rate of the targets mana rather than a flat number like you say? To compensate for ret pala and holy pala having vastly different mana pools - Forgive me if that has already gone through tho.
oPlaiD Jan 11, 2009 at 6:50 pm
+1 votes
The ability is already getting nerfed by a large amount against pretty much every class, being changed to drain a % amount instead of the full amount listed.
And really, it's not a very powerful drain. The cooldow is long and the duration is only half the cooldown, so the only way to keep it up is to use your biggest damage attack to renew it, meaning you won't be putting as much damage pressure out, especially if you are focusing a target other than the one you're draining.
Plus, if they do have a poison cleanse, then it's almost worthless much of the time since it gets removed and cannot be reapplied for 15 seconds, even with Chimera Shot.
Just because your class doesn't have a poison dispel doesn't mean you should be able to whine about poisons.
And really, it's not a very powerful drain. The cooldow is long and the duration is only half the cooldown, so the only way to keep it up is to use your biggest damage attack to renew it, meaning you won't be putting as much damage pressure out, especially if you are focusing a target other than the one you're draining.
Plus, if they do have a poison cleanse, then it's almost worthless much of the time since it gets removed and cannot be reapplied for 15 seconds, even with Chimera Shot.
Just because your class doesn't have a poison dispel doesn't mean you should be able to whine about poisons.
Danzail Jan 11, 2009 at 7:16 pm
+1 votes
Druids are countered as much by the lack of disease cleanse, chuck us that and i'll vote for your poisons.
I realise this has potential to hurt Priests hard, but there is 7 disc priests in the top 100, there is 2 resto druids - why? Because of the disease > hot thing, I think priests might have to live with 1 thing they can't touch.
I realise this has potential to hurt Priests hard, but there is 7 disc priests in the top 100, there is 2 resto druids - why? Because of the disease > hot thing, I think priests might have to live with 1 thing they can't touch.
Vadaria Jan 12, 2009 at 12:14 am
+3 votes
except diseases don't
A)Drain all your mana
B) snare you to 30% speed
C) reduce casting speed to 40% (2 abilities that do that and druids can cleanse both, priests neither) and
D) reduce healing by 50%.
of course DK plague strike removing lifebloom sucks for druids, but the ability to remove diseases doesn't prevent that, it eats my renews just the same.
Â
A)Drain all your mana
B) snare you to 30% speed
C) reduce casting speed to 40% (2 abilities that do that and druids can cleanse both, priests neither) and
D) reduce healing by 50%.
of course DK plague strike removing lifebloom sucks for druids, but the ability to remove diseases doesn't prevent that, it eats my renews just the same.
Â
Virtua Jan 12, 2009 at 1:26 am
+1 votes
rmp has been getting **** on since the dawn of arena by drain teams, if you cant counter it quit fa ggot
hogart Jan 12, 2009 at 12:09 pm
+1 votes
I have no problems with getting countered by drain teams. It's just I don't like the idea of one player of the opposing team being able to drain all of my mana in under 1 minute.
saesh Jan 12, 2009 at 2:50 am
+1 votes
healers' big vulnerabilities : healing reductions and mana drains
all healers except one can deal at the same time with the best drain ingame and what may be the most common healing reduction effect
I wonder what druids would say if all other healing classes had a reliable way to remove mortal strike debuffs and they hadn't
all healers except one can deal at the same time with the best drain ingame and what may be the most common healing reduction effect
I wonder what druids would say if all other healing classes had a reliable way to remove mortal strike debuffs and they hadn't
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