|
by Idejder, Level 26
Last updated at August 11, 2007, 3:10 am
|
of my blogs before, welcome. I am not
going to go into a large introduction, but I think of myself as quite
knowledgeable about the game and have been doing this (balance changes/ideas)
for quite a while. Anenga from Notorious
helps me out, as he is just as knowledgeable as I am. This time I will be covering my thoughts on
Priests.
Before you ask:
Am I an employee for
Blizzard? No.
Then why is this
important? You never know who is reading. Think about that.
Before I get into it, I
want to extend a thank you to everyone who posted a comment on my Warlock and
Warrior blogs. Especially to those who
decided to make their own blogs based off of mine. It's awesome and every comment and opinion
has been read. You all watched the flow
of the changes as time went on as some suggestions were modified or removed. Balance is an ever changing science, so
nothing is ever absolute.
Now we move onto the
Priests. This is an interesting topic,
as priests really are pretty decently well balanced in Arenas and PvP
overall. Shadow and Holy/Disc you see in
all brackets and I am happy with that, but the issues with priests are more in
the definition of trees and of course random bugs or fixes with abilities.
I am going to run you
through my thought process on the largest part of this, so it might be a bit
long winded. If you want to skip this
part, go for it and jump down to the second set of bullets.
All of the talent trees
should define how the class plays and feel different. If you spec deep (41 point talent) then you
should feel unique from someone else who went 41 points into a different tree. To show the point I will break it down real
quick the way I did initially. Think of
this breakdown as "If you spec into this tree what will you be doing/getting?"
- Druid - Balance (Nature DPS), Feral (Physical
DPS), Resto (Healing) - Hunter - Beast (Reliance on pet), Marks
(Physical DPS), Survival (Physical DPS & survivability) - Mage - Arcane (Arcane DPS & mana efficiency),
Fire (Fire DPS), Frost (Frost DPS) - Paladin - Holy (Healing), Prot (Tanking), Ret
(Physical/Holy DPS) - Priest - Disc (Healing), Holy (Healing), Shadow
(Shadow DPS) - Rogue - Assassin (Dagger emphasis), Combat (1H
emphasis), Subtlety (Stealth Emphasis) - Shaman - Elemental (Ranged Nature DPS),
Enhancement (Physical/Nature DPS), Resto (Healing) - Warlock - Affliction (DoT Emphasis), Demonology
(Pet Emphasis), Destro (DD Emphasis)
Warrior - Arms (2H emphasis), Fury (1H emphasis), Prot (Tanking)
So I got that stuff down and
I was thinking along the lines of "Alright, a Balance druid plays different
from a Feral druid which plays differently from a Restoration druid." That is how all of the classes should feel if
it is done right. There are problems of
course; an example being that Hunters struck me as odd with the similarities
between Marks and Survival. Seeing as
this blog is about Priests, though, I will jump to them, but I know there are other problems.
Disc and Holy trees of
Priests struck me as that they have no focus but are a mix of both. There really should be a difference, and it
lets me address a PvE problem that has plagued the class for a while. Priest healing really is not used when
compared to the other healer hybrids.
Swapping around a few of the talents would help give them a bit of help
as well as giving the trees some definition.
The goal, of course, is to get to the point where someone is a "holy
priest (Healing)" or a "disc priest (Survival)" and not just a jumble of both.
Moving talents is never easy. You need to make sure there are enough points
to get the next tier, that pre-reqs are kept as they are, and that nothing is
thrown completely out of wack. Now that I explained the reasoning behind the talent changed I am proposing, I am going to get into the actual priest changes.
Going to start different then I did last time. Not
going to break it up, as almost all of them have to do with talents in one form
or another. The actual talent suggestions are at the bottom (last changes for easy viewing).
- Lockout of spells is reset to zero when spirit
of redemption is activated.
- If you
are Counterspelled or kicked right before you die and go into spirit of
redemption form, you can't cast anything until the lockout finishes. It is extremely annoying and negates a
good chunk of the time you are in the form. Setting lockout to zero when spirit is
activated stops this annoyance and lets the talent function properly.
- If you
- CURRENT DEBATE: Mana Burn now has a 6 second cooldown.
- Improved Mana Burn now reduces the cooldown by 1 seconds per point and the cast time by .5 seconds per point, up to 2 and 1 seconds respectively.
- This is a very debatable change, and I have heard all sides. I do think that the mana burned from spam casting this spell especially with bloodlust is too much in too short of a time. Thoughts. Mana
Burn is a great way to destroy someone's manapool quickly, but I feel it
needs a cooldown to put a hard cap on how quickly someone like a hunter's
manapool disappears. Currently
with bloodlust a priest can rape a manapool in no time at all, and it
should be limited a little. This
is my suggestion to help that.
- This is a very debatable change, and I have heard all sides. I do think that the mana burned from spam casting this spell especially with bloodlust is too much in too short of a time. Thoughts. Mana
- Lightwell (LOLwell) will no longer break on
damage, is a 5 min cooldown, has 10 charges, and gains bonus from your
+healing gear.
- This talent
is actually pretty good in theory, but was implemented poorly. It needs to not break on damage and
scale better before it's worth the point.
The 5 minute cooldown lets it be used more then once in some of
the shorter fights. Hopefully if
these happened we would see priests not skip it (as often).
- This talent
- Pain Supression is now 40% damage reduction,
undispellable, lasts 8 seconds, can be cast on other players in your
party/raid, and puts a debuff on whoever it is cast on that disallows Pain
Supression from being cast on them for 2 minutes. 3 minute cooldown.
- This
turns a self-defensive spell that is barely used into a good group
utility for when paladin blessings are on cooldown. If you see this one go through, then
priests got a nice group bonus (even though the damage reduction is much
less then it is now) as it would help counter the 1-button gib groups
that spam CC one player. A pretty
good change.
- This
- Circle of Healing now heals the five players
with the largest health deficit in the radius as long as they are in your
raid.
- Currently
this spell does not prioritize party and raid, and just heals the players
in a given party if they are in range.
This makes it a big drain in raid situations where low health
people are strewn about between all the groups. If its made to pick the lowest 5
players in the radius in your raid, it makes it a pretty damn good spell
for raid healing. Priests are
supposed to be the best AOE healers, so this would solidify that.
- Currently
- Silence is no longer on the Global Cooldown and
locks out the school it interrupts for 1 second.
- This
is hand in hand with my "all kick/silence effects off the global"
argument, and if you read my warlock changes it was explained there
pretty clearly. All timed
reactionary interrupts taken off the global cooldown to separate the good
from the best. Simple enough. The second effect is made for PvE. It's so that mobs that are immune to
the actual silence effect can still be interrupted by priests when
casting.
- This
- Power Word: Shield now scales by 43% of +healing gear.
- I did the math on this one myself, and with up to 2000 +healing (a stupid amount in PvP survival gear, its usually much lower, but its a round number), currently that gives 460 more absorbed. Which is nothing. If you scale it up to 43%, it gives around 1000 with 3/3 improved shield. That still isnt a lot given damage output, but its much better scaling then how it is now. I apologize for missing this earlier, not sure what I was thinking.
- I did the math on this one myself, and with up to 2000 +healing (a stupid amount in PvP survival gear, its usually much lower, but its a round number), currently that gives 460 more absorbed. Which is nothing. If you scale it up to 43%, it gives around 1000 with 3/3 improved shield. That still isnt a lot given damage output, but its much better scaling then how it is now. I apologize for missing this earlier, not sure what I was thinking.
- Shadow Resilience now decreases the chance to be critically hit by 2/4% and also increases the chance that mind flay will not be interrupted by 25/50%
- Keeping it the basic talent, I could have just said flat 2/4% damage reduction and it would be idenitcal to mage's talent. Copying talents isnt cool and different things are better. Thus they get something they have wanted for a while, which wont change it overall as its still easily interrupted by any melee.
- Keeping it the basic talent, I could have just said flat 2/4% damage reduction and it would be idenitcal to mage's talent. Copying talents isnt cool and different things are better. Thus they get something they have wanted for a while, which wont change it overall as its still easily interrupted by any melee.
- Spirit of Redemption swapped with Divine Spirit
- Remove Improved Divine Spirit and integrate it
into the base buff - Blessed Recovery swapped with Meditation
- Blessed Resilience swapped with Force of Will
- Rough Idea: http://talents.utimer.ppvh.eu/?p=vt&i=31695
-OR-
- Spirit of Redemption swapped with Divine Spirit
and Improved Divine Spirit - Blessed Recovery swapped with Meditation
- Blessed Resilience swapped with
Force of Will - Rough Idea: http://talents.utimer.ppvh.eu/?p=vt&i=31722
- This is based off the talent explanation I had earlier. The difference, as you can see, is
clearly in what to do with Divine Spirit.
Do you integrate it into the base spell, thus making it give
spirit and 10% boost from the stat or do you leave it as two separate
talents? Either accomplishes the
goal of defining the trees without throwing off the balance
horribly. The offset for this is
that current BR/disc priests will lose a lot of healing power in exchange
for disc talents. I favor the one
that removes Improved Divine Spirit, but really it does not matter to me
much. It just keeps the tree
cleaner.
- NOTE: The talents like Pain
Supression and Circle of Healing on the linked example talent trees might
not correlate with the suggestions I have posted here. I did not go through and change every
talent. I just moved things around
to give you an idea. For now go off what is posted in this blog.
- This is based off the talent explanation I had earlier. The difference, as you can see, is
This is a big change, but instead of saying "OMG OVERPOWERED" think of what a priest would lose if this happened. A standing 28/33 healing pvp priest would roughly lose:
passive 10% healing, passive 20% mana cost of PoM, passive 15% mana cost of Gheal, passive 4-5% crit heals
And what you gain:
dispellable 12% of crit healed over 6 seconds after being crit (lawl), dispellable Power Infusion, passive 5% stamina/int, and 40% Pain Supression.
Overall you end up losing 4 good passives, gaining 2 buffs that can be dispelled along with the new Pain Supression and 4% more mana and life. Its not too strong.
I know there is one massive
thing that I did not touch on right now, and everyone is thinking it. Priest Racials and Fear Ward in
particular. I am not going into this, simply because this blog would end up being a massive amount longer.
I will return to priests
eventually and we will all talk about the Priest Racials just like I plan to return to warriors eventually to talk about Specializations. We have plenty of time before patch 2.3. =)
I would advise you to check
out Anenga's Blogs if you enjoy mine. He
thinks along the same lines I do and produces quite some great ideas like his
Dispel Mechanic.
Also I just noticed (afer I wrote this) that Kow made a priest blog recently. Check it out here:
http://www.gameriot.com/blogs/Kows-Hardline/A-Holy-Wish-List/
Edits:
Decided on Shadow Resilience
Removed Silence Cooldown Change
Fixed Mana burn, I messed it up
Added PW:S change
Removed weaving change
Pointed out Manaburn debate
Added basis for Shadow Resilience change
Enjoy. If there are spelling or grammar mistakes I will fix them as they are found.

a targets mana, but NO GREATER than the current amount it burns for.Â
For targets with large mana pools, they get burned at the same rate,
but for targets like hunters who have substantially smaller pools, it
takes longer to bring them down, and in fact makes mana burn less
effective against them than other classes.
Target has 6k mana, burns for 600.
Target has 9k mana, burns for 900.
Target has 10k mana, burns for 1000.
Target has 15k mana, burns for 1000.
etc.
The big thing you are missing is Psychic Scream.
Make Psychic Scream into a horror effect instead of a fear effect and you solve a lot of issues with priest survivability without going overboard.
Quite frankly, Disc needs more love than that.
Yes make Psychic Scream a horror effect (which will share DR with DC btw) and have the duration lowered because right now it just doesnt do much since it is mostly used an as interrupt and it is broken near instantly.
YOUR COMMENT IS BEING SAVED....     FOREVER. (I had to refresh and re-post to get it to work)
http://www.gameriot.com/blogs/z3xcellent-Thoughts-and-Rants/Response-to-WoW-Class-Balance-Priest/
wouldnt do because it would feel like homoginizing the game. Its a
blizzard thing.
PS: I really do think it needs to be undispellable. If it gave any
form of immunity or absorbtion, then yea dispel it, but its just static
reduction and much less then it is now. I feel it would be fine if it
was undispellable (its not used at all now).
CoH: yea, I wanted to increase the radius to 20, but I thought it might
make it TOO good. :P Scary, huh? Thinking of CoH to be overpowered.
Rather do little changes then larger ones when I feel it necessary.
Talent Tree changes: Well holy tree holds all of the smite DPS talents
(mana reduction, free cast, 10% damage, cast time, etc) so I figure
putting a damage talent in that tree works, as there are zero other
damage talents in the disc tree really.
"When a priest is crit according to the talent trees, martyrdoom,
blessed recovery, and blessed resil (60% of the time) should proc. Same
goes for when a crit is mitigated by resilence. Currently upon being
crit I'll see blessed resil proc but the other 2 talents missing. Or
I'll proc martyrdoom and no blessed recovery. The mechanics seem to be
broken and something needs to be done."
I'll look into it.
BR is meant to be dispellable, and silent resolve might go to 30%, still playing with that idea. Will see where it goes.
I would love to see silent resolved fixed and brough to 30%, maybe even for only 3points =P.
they didnt go into specifics about how often it would proc or if it only worked that way if you had more then 0 resielence.
I would like to concentrate on your proposed shadow priests
changes or the lack of it.
Fist shadow weaving change you suggested would only make things worse for the
priests, we are already depended on affliction warlocks in most situations and
that change has no effect in this situation, where it does take effect is when
we are without ua and one dispeller is able to negate large portion of our
damage ever going off (3 seconds dot needs to tick is more then enough for
dispel). I could go in depth on how much mana dots cost and what dispelling
them means to already weak sp mana pool. If anything I think that Silent
Resolve should be made 3 points talent with 30% resist to dispel.
Now for something on top of my head that I think need mentioning. First thing I
notice is Shadow Resilience talent deep in shadow tree; while other classes get
things like Blazing Speed, Prismatic Cloak, Nether Protection and many others
or talents with similar effects like Shadow Resilience but they all have
secondary functions too like Natural Perfection (almost all classes have one or
the other kind of talent placed similarly in their talent trees). I think that
shadow priests, as one of squishiest targets, should get more potent talent in
that place.
Also worth mentioning is how Power word: Shield scaled from once one of best
survival spells to something that will buy you 2-3 seconds. With increased
health pools and increased damage in TBC shield lost its efficiency not only as
spell that gets you some extra HP but spell that prevents interrupts while
casting (worth mentioning is that shadow spells have no interrupt prevention
talents).
This is too much to read anyway so I will stop here, otherwise good changes ![]()
So really, it comes down to probably fixing Shadow Resilience and giving Mindflay a X% chance not to be pushed back. I am standing by the non-magic effect of weaving, though. It wouldnt matter if it is or isnt anyway if a dispel order goes into the game.
Oh and PW:S I hate because of the scaling, but I didn't include it because I do not think it would change, as Blizzard thinks its fine as it is (learned at blizzcon).
That or making silent resolve like 3 points and 30%. That dispel resistance applies to shadow, right? I know the threat doesnt.
Would still need something else for SR talent on top of the MF interruption. Hrm.
Seeing as priests base have 1 dot and a second talented, it's not that huge of a detriment. 30% isnt as large as you would think as well, I rarely see dispel resists (probably less then 30 for sure).
But it is needed, I just think if priest also get a savior abilitiy, kind of like bop, I think resto / balance druids should have a talent for barkskin to be immune to dispel(only -20% damage, but 12 secs), and all druids gets it targetable. But it's maybe biased since I'm a feraler
While neither of those classes have castable buff help abilities, they
both do have NS, which is huge. They also bring other forms of buffs
to thet table. Totems and earthshield from shamans and cyclcone and
effective healing from druids.
I think both work pretty well and have benefits.
really. Still, Nature's Swiftness is extremely valuable, and no resto
shaman leaves home without it.
As for feral and balance druids "losing out"... I don't see why that's
a problem. They're specced for DPS, so why should they be awesome "oh
****" healers?
reason it didnt translate onto this blog. Thanks for reminding me.
Now there is a reason enough for me to pull that change. I have been
debating it for a while and decided to throw it up just to wait for
someone to find a real reason to pull it. There it is. The fact DoTs
cost X mana or they are removed isnt a huge deal, but the forced
reliance on another class is.
I guess subconsciencly I was hoping for someone to say this. Gives me
hope there are other people out there thinking objectively and not just
"OMG ITS NERFS MY DAMAGE".
Your warrior example doesnt work, and I do think pummel should be off the gcd.
Silence is an interrupt as well, as it stops casting. It interrupts casting, it does not lockout, but it does interrupt.
If I didnt edit the blog with a solid idea, then I wouldnt claim its overpowered just from random brainstorming. Just throwing around ideas and sorting through doesnt hurt at all.
The -interrupt would only apply to mindflay, which is a channeled spell. Kinda like your anti interrupt on arcane missles... only its not teir 1.
VE healing? Its 25% AND its affected by mortal strike. How does that compare to life drain at all? Seriously...
AOE 30 second cooldown longer lasting deathcoil? Yea think about that one. I think no.
With a few talents in the top of the arcane tree counterspell becomes a 4 second silence in addition to the interrupt. I don't think any shadow priest would hesitate at giving up their 21 point talent 5 second silence for an 8 second interrupt AND a 4 sec silence. Why should the mage 4sec silence and 8sec interrupt be on half the cooldown as a 5 second silence?
>>Another point, mages are a class that depend entirely on the GCD for damage. They won't be doing damage that does not come from the GCD. Shadow priests, being a DoT class, get a tremendous amount of damage while off the GCD because of the DoT mechanic. Even if you aren't casting, you're still doing damage, the inverse is true for mages.
Warrior/rogue pummel/kick are on gcd because they have white damage to interrupt spell casting, mages do not.
I think you extremely overate shadow priests by themselves. A shadow priests DOT damage is quite easy to get rid of when a warlock is not around. Is a water elementals damage dispellable? I'm pretty sure the water elementals 2.5sec(or whatever) "frostbolt" for 800-1k damage, that is crittable, is more than comparable to a shadowpriests' easily removable DOTs. How is a water elementals undispelable damage worse off than shadow priests DOTs?
To the rest of the post:
No, shadow priests really don't need a -interrupt to mind flay, it is fine. Focus casting does enough to make mind flay viable in the arena. The main thing we need, to gain independance from the warlock class, is a -dispel mechanicics in the shadow tree. 5 points, in the already jam packed disc tree, for a measily 20% reduction does not cut it.
I am indifferent to giving Physic scream a horror effect because the only people it will effect are warriors and undead, with the new trinket changes. It is a pretty irrelevent change IMO.
You can silence someone for 4 seconds with imp CS, so why not do it early? No reason to take it off the GCD now, is there?
I understand what you are saying, but really it doesn't fly with me. It is still a reactionary ability to stop and interrupt casting.


Your Comment is being posted. Please wait...