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by Idejder, Level 26
Last updated at August 14, 2007, 6:51 pm
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Before I start I want to thank the
people who commented on my last blogs, as the feedback was amazing and
it changes how you look at things. With
that said, it brings me to the next class I am covering in detail, which should
please a lot of people: Rogues.
Rogues are an interesting class. They are good burst when it's needed and also
have the ability to be excellent sustained damage over a long period of
time. I really like the Energy Bar as
the best out of the three types (Rage, Mana, Energy) and think it allows for
some neat mechanics down the line.
What is very intriguing to me is how much the class changed
from level 60 to 70. At 60 they were
strong and everything worked well. The
long cooldowns were balanced and the ability to stunlock someone from full to
dead was their signature. At 70 though,
they are weak due to the large changes in the structure of the game (like
Arenas) and very limited by long cooldowns that are needed much quicker than
ever before. This is all on top of being
incredibly kite-able when compared to the only other melee class.
Rogues have a lot of problems, especially in 5v5
arenas. I have talked to a lot of rogues
over the past few weeks. Ming,
Supatroopa, Nitrana, some very important people and high rated rogues from other
battlegroups all gave the same message.
It was pretty clear what needed to happen. I would appreciate it if everyone tried to be
objective when giving feedback on anything you like or dislike. Give me reasons, not just ranting with no
purpose. Suggestions are good, but do
not take offense if I disagree.
When I read through my list of changes, it is a lot of
buffs. When I look closely, I realize
that a lot are merely fixes to broken or unused abilities and several
changes have a few parts to them. Keep
that in mind when reading all of this, as it will look like more then it actually is.
All of these are serious, but there is one change listed that I think
will make all of the rogues out there laugh.
You will know it when you see it.
I was debating how to break this up correctly, as there are
a lot of jumbled changes. I am going to
break it down into categories based off the qualities or concerns of
rogues. Crowd Control, Defensive Changes,
Offensive Changes, and Mobility Changes along with some Sideboard changes at
the end. In Italics under each change it
is explained in detail why I think it is necessary. If you disagree, say why.
Suggested Changes
Crowd Control (and Disarm)
- Blind
is now a Physical effect with a cooldown of 95 seconds. Elusiveness
reduces cooldown by 15/30 seconds. Blind no longer requires a
reagent.
- I
will start with a change I think is needed. Back in the day blind was a nice extra
ability for rogues as it was on a long CD and lasted only a short
duration while still being removable.
Now that Arenas are around, it's time to take this ability to the
next level as a reliable CC spell that you guys bring to the playing
field. Making it a physical effect
while lowering the cooldown to 65 seconds (talented) brings it up to par
with other forms of reliable CC.
The reagent cost isn't needed anymore since this ability is
completely required to play in arena, no other choice.
- I
- Immune
to Disarm abilities, items, or effects now reduce the time spent disarmed
by 40%. These effects do not stack. - Weapon
Expertise now increases weapon skill by 5/10 and reduces the time disarmed
by 20/40%.
- If
you read my warrior suggestions you would know I changed the immune
disarm talent in Arms to 40% less time disarmed. This applies to rogues as well in a
way. If they have a weapon chain
or immune to disarm gloves, those would be changed to 40% less time
disarmed. Weapon Expertise is
edited to give rogues the disarm reduction in talent form like
warriors. This isn't a large
change to the rogue community, as most rogues have been disarmable for
some time and run with a spare weapon chained in their bags incase it
happens (which it rarely does).
- If
- Riposte
cooldown increased to 8 seconds and the disarm time reduced to 5 seconds.
- Even
with 40% reduction if the cooldown was kept at 6 seconds it would be too
much. Putting it up to 8 seconds
and moving it down to 5 seconds disarmed makes it so that if you use it
every cooldown, a warrior is disarmed about 38% of the time he is
attacking you. This is that "do
not attack the rogue" effect you all have been asking for. If a warrior attacks you and you have Riposte,
he will spend a lot of his time disarmed.
- Even
Defensive Changes
- Vanish
now grants 1 second of 1,000% 360 degree miss chance against the rogue. - Rogues
may now vanish or stealth while under flare or faerie fire, but are immediately pulled back out of stealth.
- This
is a two part fix to vanish. The
first is to TRY to stop the "get hit out of stealth" effect that happens
so often. That really sucks and makes
the ability a lot worse than it should be. The second note is to let rogues use
the snare/root break effects of vanish but the effects of faerie fire and flare are retained. Something as cheap as Faerie Fire
should not negate a 5 minute cooldown so completely.
- This
- New
Rogue Ability: Swirly Ball. 0
Energy. No cooldown. When used, the old detect traps
animation is played. That's
it. Nothing else happens.
- I
know for a fact all rogues are grinning like idiots reading this if they
played back when detect traps was a buff.
For you unknowing few, detect traps used to be a buff you had to
cast on yourself and it would play basically a color altered Dispel Magic
animation over your head. When
they made detect passive, they removed the animation. Many rogues claim that this was the
single worst thing Blizzard has done, as now they have nothing to do while
bored. With the return of Swirly
Ball they can now spam it to entertain themselves once again! You may use this ability while mounted
(normal or flying), swimming, running, sitting, standing, walking,
eating, dying, in ghost form, in pirate form, in ninja form, in skeleton
form, and while tiny. If you
wonder why this is in Defensive Changes... defense against boredom!
- I
- Cloak
of Shadows is now 100% spell resistance (or 100% spell absorb?). - Cloak
of Shadows is now off the Global Cooldown.
- This
is a two part fix to Cloak of Shadows.
All rogues have turned on cloak and then been nuked right through
it like nothing. Why should a
rogue have to play the RNG game on such a key survival skill? Here is a good example of what I want
to eliminate (it is a .jpg): http://tinyurl.com/23dnzb.
Yea, that mage was skilled the way he went right through
cloak. Anyway. Taking it off the global allows it to
be a good reactionary defense like ice block and divine shield for those "Oh
****" situations where you are crit by spells suddenly.
- This
Offensive Changes
- Wound
Poison now grants an 8% healing debuff per application, max of 40% with a
stack of 5.
- This
is a combo with the warrior change of reducing mortal strike to 40%. Overall healing buff since damage is
starting to get too high because of gear in Arenas.
- This
- Deadly
Throw is now a 4 second cooldown.
- The
ability to just spam this over and over based off of the RNG if you get a
combo point back or not is really silly.
Adding a 4 second cooldown it lets it be used enough to snare your
target so you can catch them but not to the point where axes are being thrown at them faster then they can
think about casting.
- The
- ONHOLD - Kick
is no longer on the Global Cooldown.
- Basically ONHOLD means its in the sideboard, but I am not physically moving it. I heard a lot of arguments for or against this, so let me know what you think. I am close to removing it, so for now consider it mostly gone. This
is also a chain off my last blogs.
I have a vision of all essential twitch interrupts taken off the
GCD. So, as with all the
others, this applies to kick.
Taking it off lets it be more reactionary and lets good players
separate from the not as fast ones.
- Basically ONHOLD means its in the sideboard, but I am not physically moving it. I heard a lot of arguments for or against this, so let me know what you think. I am close to removing it, so for now consider it mostly gone. This
- Mutilate,
Backstab, Garrote and Ambush can no longer be dodged.
- I
have always wondered to myself the following: "One cannot dodge from behind, yet
attacks that require you to be behind your target can be dodged. WTF?"
I finally came up with the reason: there is none. I cannot think of a single design
reason why a positional attack from behind should be able to be dodged
when game mechanics say it should not be able to. This is a bit of a common sense change
to alleviate a problem with server lag and client-side reporting.
- I
- Envenom
is now usable with Wound Poison and consumes the stack when used.
- Nitrana
has been bothering me about this for about 7 months. I do not see any reason why it could not work with Wound Poison. As a
note, though, it WOULD consume the charges, so keep that in mind. This would give you a valid attack that
does good damage against heavy armor targets but it is a risk to use, so
it's up to you guys to use it properly.
When used well, though, it can be quite good.
- Nitrana
Mobility Changes
- Shadowstep
is now usable in combat and roots the target for 2 seconds.
- Mobility
change 1. This one is for all the
sub rogues out there! You still
retain the damage buff and the move behind your target. On top of that they are rooted for 2
seconds (even if you use it in stealth) so you are sure to land a hit or
opener (or if you are slow they will pull you out of stealth). Be warned, though, the root can be
resisted, shifted out of, freedom'd out of, etc. Same cooldown and energy cost.
- Mobility
- Sprint
duration changed to 5 seconds, cooldown changed to 60 seconds, and for the
duration the rogue ignores any snares on him (they persist and re-snare
after the effect ends). - Endurance
now lowers the sprint cooldown by 7/15 (or 12/25) seconds. - Improved
Sprint now successfully removes Curse of Exhaustion.
- The
second mobility change. Yes, you
read it right. 45 (or 35) second cooldown
5 second duration sprint where you cannot be slowed during the
length. This gives you the same
effect that is granted to warriors when they intercept, only it lasts for
5 seconds. If you are slowed (like
curse of exhaustion) before you sprint, you will not be slowed at all
during the sprint, but be re-snared after it ends. If you are snared (hamstrung for
example) during the sprint, it will not slow you until after the sprint
ends. It does not dispel your
snares or roots when used UNLESS you have the improved sprint talent,
then it will remove both upon activation.
You CAN be rooted, stunned, CC'd, etc during the sprint. This is will allow rogues to be able to
negate a frost trap for 5 seconds before being perma slowed again and at
the same times makes improved sprint not a mandatory talent. If sprint stayed the way it was and just
the cooldown was changed, rogues would basically be forced to take
improved sprint and that would kill a lot of partial sub builds. Think of it this way. A warrior can get almost 3 intercepts
on you in the time it takes for the rogue to use this and have the
cooldown finish. Or if a rogue sprints and someone HoJs him, it will counter the sprint completely.
- The
- Fleetfooted
now passively increases your movement speed by 20% instead of 8%.
This effect does not stack with other movement increasing effects.
- The
third and final mobility change.
This is passive and while it would not play much of a difference
in matches when the rogue is snared, when he is not snared he will
finally be able to keep up with someone who has blessing of freedom on or
is trying to kite him by just running away. This also helps rogues who do not have
the stealth movement talent to move faster while trying to land an
opener. More of an anti-kite talent. Not necessary to have, but very good
for mutilate rogues REMEMBER THIS: Druids have a passive 30% movespeed buff in cat form. Rogues would still move slower then cat druids, how is that so bad?
- The
Sideboard
The sideboard is a place I put talents or abilities I think
have potential, but I have either cut them from the true suggested changes or I
am not sure if it is completely needed. In
this will be two changes. The first is a
damage increase and the second is a group utility. I am not advocating these right now, but if you
think they should be added to the Suggested Changes portion, post a comment and
tell me why. And "just because" is not enough;
something in the Sideboard would take a really strong argument to move back up. The first person to post "OmG the changes
your sideboard are overpowered!" gets the ‘IQ of a Park bench' award and I
ignore anything you have to say. They
are in this section for a reason.
- Agility
and Strength now give 1.5 Attack Power instead of just 1.
- This
came about because I was curious how much of an increase this would be
and I enjoy doing math about changes like this, so I whipped up a
spreadsheet that you all can see: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p4LB-eZIz13daEueTCCEdUA. It ends up being roughly a 10% increase
on white damage, which is the reason I put it down here. I think it's probably way too much
seeing as rogues already top the PvE charts, but I put the work into it
so here it is. If you think rogues
SHOULD get this increase, post on Gameriot and let me know why. You will need one hell of a good reason
to convince me of this. I think a better PvP damage buff if rogues need one lies with eviscerate, but I am still working on that.
- This
- Rogue new
ability: Smokescreen. Instant. 20 Yard Range. 3 minute cooldown. Reagent: Flash Powder.
The targeted teammate is thrown into improved stealth (+55) by the rogue
and taken out of combat. Snare and Root effects are removed but any
action taken by the player will break the effect. Stealth lasts 4 seconds. Damage or debuffs
do not break this stealth. Cannot
target self.
- This
is a quick mechanic to try to save someone being bursted, but it does not
remove Mortal Strike effects. It is
a way to give group utility to rogues while not making them any stronger
in 1v1 situations since they cannot use it on themselves. The reason it is down here is because I
am split and unsure if rogues need such an ability to make them wanted/needed
in Arena groups or if this is just overkill. I know that all of the readers will
have an opinion on this, so it should be an interesting debate.
- This
By popular demand I am going to write out all the changes I suggested without the explanations real quick. I have gotten quite a few requests for this so people can copy and paste thing easily, so here you go:
Crowd Control (and Disarm)
- Blind
is now a Physical effect with a cooldown of 95 seconds. Elusiveness
reduces cooldown by 15/30 seconds. Blind no longer requires a
reagent. - Immune
to Disarm abilities, items, or effects now reduce the time spent disarmed by
40%. These effects do not stack. - Weapon
Expertise now increases weapon skill by 5/10 and reduces the time disarmed
by 20/40%. - Riposte
cooldown increased to 8 seconds and the disarm time reduced to 5 seconds.
Defensive Changes
- Vanish
now grants 1 second of 1,000% 360 degree miss chance against the rogue. - Rogues
may now vanish or stealth while under flare or faerie fire, but are immediately pulled back out of stealth. - New
Rogue Ability: Swirly Ball. 0
Energy. No cooldown. When used, the old detect traps
animation is played. That's
it. Nothing else happens. - Cloak
of Shadows is now 100% spell resistance. (Or 100% spell absorb?) - Cloak
of Shadows is now off the Global Cooldown.
Offensive Changes
- Wound
Poison now grants an 8% healing debuff per application, max of 40% with a
stack of 5. - Deadly
Throw is now a 4 second cooldown. - ONHOLD - Kick
is no longer on the Global Cooldown. - Mutilate,
Backstab, Garrote and Ambush can no longer be dodged. - Envenom
is now usable with Wound Poison and consumes the stack when used.
Mobility Changes
- Shadowstep
is now usable in combat and roots the target for 2 seconds. - Sprint
duration changed to 5 seconds, cooldown changed to 60 seconds, and for the
duration the rogue ignores any snares on him (they persist and re-snare
after the effect ends). - Endurance
now lowers the sprint cooldown by 7/15 (or 12/25) seconds. - Improved
Sprint now successfully removes Curse of Exhaustion. - Fleetfooted
now passively increases your movement speed by 20% instead of 8%.
This effect does not stack with other movement increasing effects.
So I thank you all for reading and appreciate any
comments that you may have. On Wednesday
I am leaving for GenCon Indy and will not be back until Monday. I should have access to computers there to
check Gameriot, but do not be surprised if I cannot reply for a while. If (or When) I edit this article (because
balance is an ever changing art), changes will be below in bold. I will also link any response blogs I get on
Gameriot down here under the edits when I can.
EDITS:
Changed Sprint cooldown to 15 seconds.
Put kick change ON HOLD. This means its basically on sideboard status.
Re-worded vanish change.
Re-buffed Weapon Expertise for PvE rogues. Sorry, had a stupid moment.
Added spell absorb idea for cloak
Edited sprint to show origional
Response Blogs:
Ming:
http://www.gameriot.com/blogs/World-of-Ming/Response-To-Idejders-Rogue-Balance-Changes/
Thank you again. If
there are any spelling or grammar errors let me know. I am no English major, so I will just
apologize now.

251 comments
Kintt Aug 14, 2007 at 7:08 pm
+1 votes
The mobility buff is insane. 20 percent movement speed? 35 second sprint? You can't have your cake and eat it to. 45 second sprint and no buff to fleet footed. The change only makes classes without snares weaker against rogues. Hell, it only really helps them catching priests, cause they are the only class in the game that can't snare or root someone.
Idejder Aug 14, 2007 at 7:17 pm
+5 votes
20% isnt that much when you consider everyone has 8% already. So its 12% more. If it was like 15% it would only be 7% more, which isnt much.
If I worded it saying they get 12% movespeed but it stacks people would gloss it over, so really that one isnt that bad.
Sprint I was debating between a 35 and 45 second cooldown for a long time, but they ARE melee and need to get around or else they are worthless. They are still way squishier then warriors with less armor and less life with no defensive stance, but if you set it to 45 seconds a warrior could intercept you three times easily before a rogue could sprint at you and the cooldown finishes. Should they be so immobile? I mean even their snare is clensable by 3 of the 4 healing classes.
Yea they will be able to catch priests easier because we have no snare, its a flaw of the class. Nothing we can do about it, it sucks. Maybe we will get one to 80. Doubt it, but who knows.
If I worded it saying they get 12% movespeed but it stacks people would gloss it over, so really that one isnt that bad.
Sprint I was debating between a 35 and 45 second cooldown for a long time, but they ARE melee and need to get around or else they are worthless. They are still way squishier then warriors with less armor and less life with no defensive stance, but if you set it to 45 seconds a warrior could intercept you three times easily before a rogue could sprint at you and the cooldown finishes. Should they be so immobile? I mean even their snare is clensable by 3 of the 4 healing classes.
Yea they will be able to catch priests easier because we have no snare, its a flaw of the class. Nothing we can do about it, it sucks. Maybe we will get one to 80. Doubt it, but who knows.
Dyzz Aug 15, 2007 at 10:05 am
+1 votes
45 second sprint and no fleetfooted buff would be more than enough.
Kintt Aug 15, 2007 at 2:50 pm
+1 votes
Yes rogues are melee, but I don't think they should be immune to kiting. In my opinion there should be some times when all their cooldowns are down that they cannot catch a target, but I feel that time now is currently too large. The main problem is when you get targetted by a warrior and spamstringed and intercepted, so why not give them some buff similar to blazing speed when you get attacked by a melee class.#
Crim Aug 15, 2007 at 3:46 pm
+1 votes
In a 5v5 situation a rogues true purpose isnt to do max DPS as there is other class that offer much better burst damage. But rather the true purpose of a rogue is the stun focused target to keep them in LoS, or disable healers completly, at the same time offering solid manaless Damage over time.
Unffortuntely being kited completly takes us out of a game, where as a warrior has 15 second intercept, way higher burst damage armor and 50% healing reduction with a 100% apply rate unkitable and pummel fear explain to me why rogues shouldnt be un-kiteable? A priest has 20% stun resist with tons of life and resilence having a rogue on you to disable your heals isnt much different then getting CS'd by a mage when your warriors at 20%.
Simply put rogues offer - Stuns, interupts, sustained DPS none of which we can acheive
when not in melee range. When rogues have less armor less surviability (force CoS evasion then switch targets, seconds later easiest kill in the match) then a warrior who is virtually immune to being kited,(intercept BoF all times) also we offer less burst damage and no shout with 1klife or 300 attack power, theres no reason a rogue should be able to be kited. If rogues offer no party buffs why shouldnt they be the strongest 1v1 class, if a rogues on your healer then your going to have to CC him, not just hamstring and run spamming heals.
Unffortuntely being kited completly takes us out of a game, where as a warrior has 15 second intercept, way higher burst damage armor and 50% healing reduction with a 100% apply rate unkitable and pummel fear explain to me why rogues shouldnt be un-kiteable? A priest has 20% stun resist with tons of life and resilence having a rogue on you to disable your heals isnt much different then getting CS'd by a mage when your warriors at 20%.
Simply put rogues offer - Stuns, interupts, sustained DPS none of which we can acheive
when not in melee range. When rogues have less armor less surviability (force CoS evasion then switch targets, seconds later easiest kill in the match) then a warrior who is virtually immune to being kited,(intercept BoF all times) also we offer less burst damage and no shout with 1klife or 300 attack power, theres no reason a rogue should be able to be kited. If rogues offer no party buffs why shouldnt they be the strongest 1v1 class, if a rogues on your healer then your going to have to CC him, not just hamstring and run spamming heals.
maas Aug 14, 2007 at 7:16 pm
+1 votes
I agree with kick and CloS off the global cooldown, and CloS being 100 percent.
Idejder Aug 14, 2007 at 7:19 pm
+3 votes
Actually I might undo the kick change. I heard a great argument in IRC about the entire GCD-interupts thing. Mulling it over.
Gankt Aug 15, 2007 at 9:28 am
+1 votes
Honestly, I believe that all interrupts should be on the GCD, including Counterspell(it currently is not), this opens the options for healing classes and allows them to play a style which can effectivly counter.. counterspell by playing around the Mage's GCD, same thing with Kick/Pummel/etc.
Idejder Aug 15, 2007 at 11:31 am
+1 votes
I explained why CS Should stay off the GCD. Search for it, its around.
deathtac Aug 14, 2007 at 7:20 pm
+2 votes
Pretty much everything under Sideboard is pretty OP. Smokescreen is pretty much hacks, snare their dps have a healer run los, smokescreen them and gg drink. Rogues def need the sprint buff or some type of mobility buff but I disagree with a 20% passive movement speed. "Cloak of Shadows is now 100% spell resistance." Come on now, I enjoy Supa getting pissed because he dies. It should be about 95%, but I disagree with 100% only because I want to know I have a "chance" rather then run away cause I'm ******. "Blind is now a Physical effect with a cooldown of 95 seconds." I agree but the target will have to remain in combat imo or their will be too much vanish sap since you can't cleanse it.
Idejder Aug 14, 2007 at 7:40 pm
+2 votes
It is in the sideboard for a reason.
Passive movespeed of some kind I think is needed, as it will be a good way of giving them mobility.
lol @ supa and the cloak change. I see your reason, but it really is just RNG stupidness
Not a bad thought on blind. Sap is very underused though, but it is strong. Remember that all CC is nerfed next patch, so it would last less time.
Passive movespeed of some kind I think is needed, as it will be a good way of giving them mobility.
lol @ supa and the cloak change. I see your reason, but it really is just RNG stupidness
Not a bad thought on blind. Sap is very underused though, but it is strong. Remember that all CC is nerfed next patch, so it would last less time.
Saithe Aug 14, 2007 at 9:58 pm
+1 votes
I'm sure you do want to have a chance to luck out and depend on luck.
zyZ- Aug 14, 2007 at 7:21 pm
+1 votes
Increasing armor gained from agility would be a nice way for them to start.
Not sure about the rest, seems like there's too much mobility.
Not sure about the rest, seems like there's too much mobility.
Idejder Aug 14, 2007 at 7:42 pm
+2 votes
Armor gain from agility is a cool idea, not sure what happens with itemization and armor on pieces of gear, though.
Lyddea Aug 14, 2007 at 7:37 pm
+1 votes
A lot of the stuff here is just right on. The blind change has been a great idea for a while now, blind lost so much with the new pvp trinkets. It's just so nice to see stuff like Vanish and dodged backstab up there. Fully agree with wep ex, deadly throw, and SWIRLY BALL! Don't really think riposte change will matter much, you only get to riposte after you parry which isn't that often against a warrior.
As far as mobility changes go, this is where the class needs help, everyone knows it. I think the 20% movement speed and the 35sec talented sprint might go to far though. Probably just the new sprint is enough.
For suggestions, I personally think Agi should go back to being the best stat a rogue can have again, rather than ap. The way to do this though is to increase its armor and dodge bonuses. Rogues do fine damage, but are hugely disadvantaged against warriors for instance, bump agi to 5 armor per and lower the dodge ratio. I mean, rogues may be the lowest armor class in the game now! And don't just tease with eviscerate scaling.
Shadowstep used in combat means its usable out of stealth?
As far as mobility changes go, this is where the class needs help, everyone knows it. I think the 20% movement speed and the 35sec talented sprint might go to far though. Probably just the new sprint is enough.
For suggestions, I personally think Agi should go back to being the best stat a rogue can have again, rather than ap. The way to do this though is to increase its armor and dodge bonuses. Rogues do fine damage, but are hugely disadvantaged against warriors for instance, bump agi to 5 armor per and lower the dodge ratio. I mean, rogues may be the lowest armor class in the game now! And don't just tease with eviscerate scaling.
Shadowstep used in combat means its usable out of stealth?
Klauz Aug 14, 2007 at 7:55 pm
+1 votes
Fleet Footed does not need a buff and it would make everyone respec Mutilate or 2x/3x Combat. Endurance should only be 8/15.
Otherwise, most of the suggestions were pretty good.
Otherwise, most of the suggestions were pretty good.
Idejder Aug 14, 2007 at 8:20 pm
+3 votes
As I said sprint was one of those things I was playing with the idea, but if its 45 seconds you can get intercepted 3 times in the cooldown. Should rogues be so far behind?
The fleetfooted is for mutilate rogues, and with the sprint change it allows many other builds to work. With the change to shadowstep it gives those rogues who want to play sub a boost.
The fleetfooted is for mutilate rogues, and with the sprint change it allows many other builds to work. With the change to shadowstep it gives those rogues who want to play sub a boost.
nzgs Aug 14, 2007 at 10:35 pm
+1 votes
mutilate as a 41 point talent, as the hardest build to perfect, SHOULD be the best pvp tree. It is a ******* crime that the noobfest that is combat is the best pvp build at the moment. Mutilate players should be rewarded for their skill, and the FF and envenom changes are perfect.
I agree on all your changes, except smokescreen is unneeded and too powerful. The passive mobility change is the best thing, i have been wanting that for a long time. the extra 12% speed is not game breaking at all considering druids.
I agree on all your changes, except smokescreen is unneeded and too powerful. The passive mobility change is the best thing, i have been wanting that for a long time. the extra 12% speed is not game breaking at all considering druids.
Idejder Aug 14, 2007 at 10:40 pm
+1 votes
Smokescreen is in my Sideboard for a reason, it is too strong really. I put it here and published it because I really like the idea. I think it has potential but it needs works and I ran out of time.
depz Aug 15, 2007 at 4:44 pm
+1 votes
Rogues can do a lot more to keep you locked down than warriors can once on top of you. While this may not seem like much remember this also allows the rest of your team to bomb on whoever the rogue has locked down as well as more or less taking them out of the game if theyre a caster. The high attack speed of rogues makes it quite difficult to get off casts as is.
If youre going to make blind physical the duration should be 6 seconds, a max of 8 seconds (still too long imo) with a min cooldown (talented) of 60s~. This is like cyclone but uncounterable by interrupts, and you can still keep moving, pretty OP. This is on top of other rogue cc, snares, stuns, disorient, wound poison, deadly throw, kick etc.
If youre going to make blind physical the duration should be 6 seconds, a max of 8 seconds (still too long imo) with a min cooldown (talented) of 60s~. This is like cyclone but uncounterable by interrupts, and you can still keep moving, pretty OP. This is on top of other rogue cc, snares, stuns, disorient, wound poison, deadly throw, kick etc.
Idejder Aug 20, 2007 at 11:17 pm
+1 votes
I think one 8 second blind every minute or so isnt anything to get
worked up over. Poison is the most easily removed debuff, so it needs
work. I understand they have a lot of other things as well, but that is their role. They bring nothing else.
worked up over. Poison is the most easily removed debuff, so it needs
work. I understand they have a lot of other things as well, but that is their role. They bring nothing else.
Steroid Aug 14, 2007 at 7:56 pm
+1 votes
Solid changes, they make alot of sense and would fix alot of the problems we have atm.
Smokescreen would definatly add something to us for goup Pvp
Smokescreen would definatly add something to us for goup Pvp
Idejder Aug 14, 2007 at 8:18 pm
+1 votes
Smokescreen would be a bit too much... by that I mean I think it would be a lot too much.
Steroid Aug 14, 2007 at 8:22 pm
+1 votes
Well, we need something unique that we can bring to the table for 5v5.
Idejder Aug 14, 2007 at 8:23 pm
+1 votes
It is up to Blizzard really, I think Smokescreen is unique and would be cool, but it might be too much. There are tons of other ideas for group based buffs for rogues, this is just one.
Galumia Aug 14, 2007 at 7:57 pm
+1 votes
My biggest complaint in BC with the rogue class has been our lack of mobility, I think these changes adress them nicely. I also agree with the Dodge changes to attacks from behind, well at least till they make a character class with eyes in the back of thier head.
Leveh Aug 14, 2007 at 8:08 pm
+1 votes
Being a rogue I can only agree whole heartedly with you. One thing I was surprised wasn't mentioned is expose armor reducing a certain % of resilience. It would give rogues more group utility in 5v5, but I can also see how it might overpower certain 4dps teams (*cough, OTFAD) and was wondering what your opinion on the change was.
I love the new twist on the sprint change, previously I had only seen reduced CD/duration times suggested. I think your idea is spot on with re-applying snares after the sprint effect is over (without imp sprint).
I love the new twist on the sprint change, previously I had only seen reduced CD/duration times suggested. I think your idea is spot on with re-applying snares after the sprint effect is over (without imp sprint).
Idejder Aug 14, 2007 at 8:21 pm
+1 votes
I have a few other energy related nifty tricks that I did not use.
And if expose removed resilience... yea... we don't need to help 4 dps teams. Resilience is already capped, so meh.
And if expose removed resilience... yea... we don't need to help 4 dps teams. Resilience is already capped, so meh.
Ever want to give opinions on game and class balance in WoW? Post a comment about my thoughts and let me know. Every idea is a step in the right direction. Disclaimer: No I do not work for Blizzard.
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Started July 27, 2007
7 Total Entries
7 Total Entries
THE SPOTLIGHT


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