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by Ming, Level 68
Last updated at November 13, 2007, 1:14 am
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Right here on PTR, I realized to defend the honor of the rogue community, it is much more than just a few rogue class heroes beating tough classes. A class is strong when the majority of the players can defend themselves, this is why I will soon condense the rushdown style into pre-canned, easy to follow packages, and teach my jutsus to others. In every PTR so far, whenever I walk outside of IF I saw full gladiator rogues lose to every class in the book. Warriors with lesser gear beat rogues with superior gear and we were owned by mages, warlocks, you name it.
Not 2.3, where every rogue on PTR was some sort of hemo spec and not afraid to unload the wrath of preparation on their foes. I saw warriors with full S2 gear brought to their knees by not just myself, Neilyo or Ultimus, but countless other rogue players. I saw rogues dominate SL/SL warlocks with brutal damage. The majority of the rogues are finally winning duels on PTR! That is the sign of a strong class. I have said it before and I will say it again, for rogue, a class without any buff or real support skills for others, for us to be a dominant force in arena play we must be top tier in 1v1.
While dagger went the way of destruction warlocks, the AR/prep spec solved all of my complaints about a rogue in arena play. Our long range sap/blind, neither can be dispelled is *the* unique ability I have been waiting for all along. While top paladins have became unbearable in duels as a result, blind can not be removed by anything outside of PVP trinkets / invulnerabilities is a dramatic upgrade. 1.5 minute blind that costs no money to spam will also generate a lot of complaints in PUG BGs, as rogues will use this ability far more often than we have been.
And like PVE, where Blizzard decided rogue's only value was DPS so they gave us the highest single target DPS in the game, the buff to hemo gave us the best single target DPS during the opening minute of an arena match. The other team is now forced to guard us, maybe even double/triple team us, and we have more defensive cooldowns than anyone else. My biggest pain playing arena as rogue/mage/priest, was the fact that the other team often left me alone and allowed me DPS to my heart's content, and just shutdown my mage. If the other team is afraid of my two AR's and puts pressure on me, it will open up the game for everyone else. I can't imagine what kind of numbers rogue with warglaive will put up, with 4T6 and rest all PVP pieces.
The final night of PTR was somewhat laggy and I watched Ultimus's very
unique shadowstep build against Venruki and Duskashes. This build is
extremely sensitive on timing and lag plays a huge factor in getting
off the shadowstep KS's. Ultimus ended up losing 2-4 to both but with
molten armor and the 0/5/56 anti-melee spec , outside of speccing
anti-mage yourself (25/0/36 for fleet footed. enveloping shadows and
CB/hemo), it is just not possible to beat them. I have to say I was
extremely impressed by Venruki's ability to adapt to an opponent's
playing style. Our first series as AR/Prep I took a 1-0 lead and he
beat me four in a row to end the series. Our second series I went
25/0/36 with full anti-mage talents to counter his anti-melee build, I
had a 3-0 lead but he broke my heart with some incredibly clutch
performances down the stretch to win the series once again. Against
Ultimus's style, which focuses on vanishing to wait out the pet and
running the mage out of manas and cooldowns, once again he was down 0-1
but quickly adjusted his strategies to win four of the next five.
Duskashes took a page from Venruki and is now using molten armor 100%
of the times against rogues, and it is downright ugly.
Likewise, I had a very rough time vs Klip, a holy paladin with mixed
PVP / T6 gear. He beat Ultimus's OOM style 4-3 in Blade's Edge Arena
the night before but against my rushdown style he is just tough as
nails. Fighting a human paladin with perception on open ground is
really rough. His T6 trinket puts a DOT on me whenever I get judged
and it really annoys the hell out of me when I need to bandage or a
quick vanish. Without resorting to eating/drinking I just can't see
anyone beating him without warglaives. Prior to him copying over a new
character I could at least get 30-40% of the matches, but he was able
to sweep me with his shiny new gear and I have to try him again when I
get S3 stuff.
In any case, rogue is now balanced with prep in mind. A AR/prep (which
will also be our most popular arena build) rogue on live servers
popping prep should be able to beat just about any arena geared/specced
player. PTR is a whole new ball game because people spec and gear
specifically to counter rogues. Even then, by the middle of season 3,
once I obtain full S3 gear and switch my very conservative
gems/enchants with pure DPS, I should be able to complete my rushdown
style and get over the hump.

119 comments
Barr Nov 13, 2007 at 1:27 am
+0 votes
buff spriest before shamans k?
** BREAKING NEWS **
Ming is actually white!
** END NEWS **
** BREAKING NEWS **
Ming is actually white!
** END NEWS **
Pathetique Nov 13, 2007 at 1:29 am
+5 votes
Justifying the ability to have complete 1v1 dominance by the fact that you can not support others is flawed. Blind and crippling poison are especially important abilities.
Unless you are referring to pve support. In which case, attempting to validify dominance through that lens is near moronic.
Every class has a counter. What is yours?
Unless you are referring to pve support. In which case, attempting to validify dominance through that lens is near moronic.
Every class has a counter. What is yours?
Checkita Nov 13, 2007 at 3:05 am
+2 votes
a warrior that duels with a shield and specs last stand in full pve tanking gear imo...
Suppress Nov 13, 2007 at 1:36 am
+2 votes
ming, we're not going to be OP and we won't be 'that' much better than we are now.
typical ming - a few 'meh' changes to rogues and you go crazy.
typical ming - a few 'meh' changes to rogues and you go crazy.
Spiciertuna Nov 13, 2007 at 1:42 am
+4 votes
Me having dyslexia combined with the way you wrote that article is just cruel.
Solange Nov 13, 2007 at 1:45 am
+3 votes
"In any case, rogue is now balanced with prep in mind."
thats all you need to know, right there. we are balanced and strong every 10 min. golden age indeed.
"I can't imagine what kind of numbers rogue with warglaive will put up, with 4T6 and rest all PVP pieces."
why cant you imagine? itll sort be like the numbers a stormherald warrior has put out for past 6 months every time he stepped into an arena... just less, since the rogue in a 5 min match will spend a ton of time running around attacking air and crying bitter tears he doesnt have a 15 sec intercept that stuns for 3 sec.
thats all you need to know, right there. we are balanced and strong every 10 min. golden age indeed.
"I can't imagine what kind of numbers rogue with warglaive will put up, with 4T6 and rest all PVP pieces."
why cant you imagine? itll sort be like the numbers a stormherald warrior has put out for past 6 months every time he stepped into an arena... just less, since the rogue in a 5 min match will spend a ton of time running around attacking air and crying bitter tears he doesnt have a 15 sec intercept that stuns for 3 sec.
Ming Nov 13, 2007 at 1:56 am
-1 votes
Storm herald warrior damage is nowhere near AR/prep rogue's, not even close, during the first and most important minute of the fight. DPS is not about biggest numbers, or mages would always outdamage warlocks in PVP.
Suppress Nov 13, 2007 at 2:00 am
+1 votes
ming, i agree with you that dps isn't about biggest numbers, but warriors still do more damage than us most of the time even when we have AR up.
remember, blizzard didn't fix our mobility problems, and mobility plays a huge role in dps.
remember, blizzard didn't fix our mobility problems, and mobility plays a huge role in dps.
Akrios Nov 13, 2007 at 5:06 am
+2 votes
dps isn't about the biggest numbers, but killing people in arena is. Burst damage is how you kill people, which is why 2345 teams are so effective. It's a lot easier to heal through the consistent damage of a rogue than the burst damage of a warrior.
Raptoreyes Nov 18, 2007 at 4:14 am
+1 votes
This is why I believe subtlety rogues might actually become the new flavor of the month in the arena, despite their lower overall damage. That high amount of opening burst is great for teams going for that quick kill Akrios.
Additionally the ability of shadow step to be used as a focus fire escape ability, combined with the massively buffed cheat death will help change the landscape as well. ( though quick recovery will always be better for outlast matches)
As for you Ming.... you should know by now that mage damage is generally more valuable because of its bursting nature than warlock damage is due to its consistent nature. The ability of mages to avoid focus fire completely instead of having to absorb it will become more valuable once burst makes a comeback due to the resilience cap. Regardless we can expect more for a mate just keep winding even those things it turned in their favor.
Additionally the ability of shadow step to be used as a focus fire escape ability, combined with the massively buffed cheat death will help change the landscape as well. ( though quick recovery will always be better for outlast matches)
As for you Ming.... you should know by now that mage damage is generally more valuable because of its bursting nature than warlock damage is due to its consistent nature. The ability of mages to avoid focus fire completely instead of having to absorb it will become more valuable once burst makes a comeback due to the resilience cap. Regardless we can expect more for a mate just keep winding even those things it turned in their favor.
Kranky Nov 13, 2007 at 2:14 am
+3 votes
title should be
Countdown to Rogue's Golden Age In TBC, Countdown to Rogue's Golden Age In TBC, PTR wrap-up PTR wrap-up.
Countdown to Rogue's Golden Age In TBC, Countdown to Rogue's Golden Age In TBC, PTR wrap-up PTR wrap-up.
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