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by Serennia, Level 58
Last updated at August 10, 2009, 9:13 am
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I know I'm not alone when I say that s6 was incredibly annoying in more ways than one. Most notably, the following:
-Starting new teams at 0 team rating
-MMR inconsistencies resulting in 2 teams going up in rating when splitting games
-Innervate
-Prolydins
-FoKing rogues
-Destruction warlocks
Of these points listed, the only one really fixed was Innervate in the latest patch removing its dispel resistance from Improved Barkskin and reducing the amount restored and cooldown by 50%. The rest of the issues remain outstanding and I would really suggest the following changes if Blizzard wants to keep people playing actively in s7:
-Start teams at 1500 rating. Please. The grind from 0 to 1500 is brutal especially if you start right off the bat queuing at 2800+ MMR against the top teams in the battlegroup. And if said top teams arn't queuing, you get to enjoy 5-8 minute long queues (pre-patch) which are significantly longer after patch 3.2 with the new queueing system.
-Change it so at least the MMR's are sum-zero based if not the team ratings themselves. I honestly much prefer the original TBC rating system where any points gained were identical to the points lost by the other team. Ever since this changed mid-season 5, arena has honestly just felt so much less gratifying to participate in knowing that teams can generally just spam games to high ratings.
-Address the ridiculous arena specs such as prot/holy for paladins and the "FoK" spec for rogues which should never be even close to viable. I've said it before and I'll say it again: PvE tanking paladins don't even get improved hammer of justice and the only reason they get Judgements of the Just is the attack speed decrease. They don't need 20sec cooldown ranged, magical kidney shots, period.
-Most of the big burst classes were addressed so they couldn't "global" people anymore including death knights of all specs, rogues of all specs, retribution paladins, and even hunters a while ago. However, there still remains the problem of destruction warlocks and to a lesser extent elemental shamans. The combination of chaos bolt, conflagrate, shadowfury, shadowburn, and backlash procs all being instantly chained back to back after casting the chaos bolt (and immolate) is quite frankly a little out of hand and most warlocks even realize this. This simply isn't fun to play against or even play with.
TBC Arena was fun to me because when you saw people at the top of a ladder, you know they worked their ass off for it typically (with some exceptions obviously), not because they abused the rating system or spammed games. Hopefully Blizzard can learn from their mistakes of WotLK arena and improve things all around next season.
Wizard Cleave the True Melee Cleave Counter?
There's been a lot of talk ever since the patch and even some before then about the viability of "wizard cleave" (the combination of 1 healer and 2 dps casters on a 3v3 team). This particular combo was pretty strong in the right hands even before the patch with setups such as resto druid, destruction warlock, frost mage (or elemental shaman), but after the patch now, it's much stronger for several reasons: frost mage healing reduction, resto shaman buffs, and various nerfs to other classes that previously countered wizard cleave.
Melee cleave (1 healer, 2 physical classes) has been pretty dominant ever since season 3 with the biggest selling point of the ease of getting high ratings with. A lot of comps out there have been "soft" counters to melee cleave in the past, but with the current incarnation of wizard cleave, has there ever been a stronger counter? Take your typical "TSG comp" for example (holy paladin, death knight, warrior) and put it against a restoration shaman, frost mage, destruction warlock (or similar variations) after patch now and I'd honestly be extremely surprised to see the melee cleave win more than 10% of the games vs. a wizard cleave like this. Quite simply, the casters can put out ridiculous burst at 36-41 yard range, have far more CC than melee cleave, much more kiting options typically, and most importantly put a melee cleave like the one mentioned on a clock to win the match. If the melee team doesn't score a kill within the first minute or so of the match, it's basically over following the divine shield wearing off and there isn't much that can be done about it.
Maybe I just haven't seen enough matches to draw a good conclusion here but can anyone really name any variation of melee cleave that would counter these types of wizard cleave? Maybe it's past due for the melee teams to have a hard counter but if it is that time, I honestly feel bad for all those teams out there that open matches with a death grip bladestorm in the first two seconds. If they haven't faced any wizard cleaves yet post-patch, they'll really be in for it come season seven.

139 comments
Realz Aug 10, 2009 at 1:48 pm
+1 votes
TheReaper said
richard cheese
Bromsius Aug 10, 2009 at 10:50 am
+23 votes
Akrios said
wizard sleeve
I could handle cleave and shadowplay in TBC, now everything is ******* "-play" and "-cleave".
What next? A triple Tauren shaman/druid/warr comp called "Milkplay"? A new OP comp in S7 which some douche bag calls "Cheesecleave" (cos you're cleaving cheesily (hilarious bro)!).
For the love of almighty God when you arena nerds come up with a new comp don't call it ******* -CLEAVE OR -PLAY! If I see another one of these suffixes again I swear I'm going to punch Zilea's kitten!
Bosskraaka Aug 10, 2009 at 3:41 pm
+9 votes
Owlplay, Hunter with owl pet, moonkin and a resto druid.
Shamelessely stolen from AJ.
Shamelessely stolen from AJ.
Lieto Aug 12, 2009 at 3:15 pm
+1 votes
// Maybe I just haven't seen enough matches to draw a good conclusion here but can anyone really name any variation of melee cleave that would counter these types of wizard cleave? //
Shamans are overrated. They gained the ability to kite but they lost fast heals and cheap nature guardian on 8s cd. As it stands now i dont see wizard cleave having a good chance vs lets say Ret+Rogue+priest if RRP sap warlock and just train the shaman to death (which wont take long even), both cloak, freedom and bubble wil be too much for the shaman to handle.
If paladin or rogue are Belf (or both lol) i guess it will be just impossible for shaman — juke kick, gouge and double silence before he can even recover from cheap shot, considering he trinkets kidney with shortest cast being 1.2 seconds, ye gl on that.
Shamans are overrated. They gained the ability to kite but they lost fast heals and cheap nature guardian on 8s cd. As it stands now i dont see wizard cleave having a good chance vs lets say Ret+Rogue+priest if RRP sap warlock and just train the shaman to death (which wont take long even), both cloak, freedom and bubble wil be too much for the shaman to handle.
If paladin or rogue are Belf (or both lol) i guess it will be just impossible for shaman — juke kick, gouge and double silence before he can even recover from cheap shot, considering he trinkets kidney with shortest cast being 1.2 seconds, ye gl on that.
proclass Aug 10, 2009 at 8:25 pm
-3 votes
You're just NOW figuring all this stuff out Mouthrennia?
Do you even play this game or did you go casual?
Wizard cleave has been around all of S6, moron, and it's raped cleave since day one. It's hilarious to see "balanced" teams complain about cleave all season, when I haven't lost a series against a double melee team in months.
GET COUNTERED.
and you STILL don't understand the new MMR system. ******* hilarious that people of your "caliber" still think that "zerging games" gets you high rated. Zerging affects the MMR ranks far LESS than the TBC system, and if you had a brain instead of a fish mouth, you'd have realized that.
Next I guess you're going to complain that teams can get rank 1 with a less than 90% win ratio. You're a ******* joke.
I love how you mention Hunters "globaling" someone in S5, when in fact I was never hit by a Hunter for more than 3k in one hit back in that season (barring execute). You know what DID hit me for more than 3k and was completely ignored in this "blog?" DEATH KNIGHTS. Lol 6k Icy Touch spam more, PLEASE.
Oh wait, I forgot they fixed that, now you spam 8-9k Frost Strikes. Big change there.
Do you even play this game or did you go casual?
Wizard cleave has been around all of S6, moron, and it's raped cleave since day one. It's hilarious to see "balanced" teams complain about cleave all season, when I haven't lost a series against a double melee team in months.
GET COUNTERED.
and you STILL don't understand the new MMR system. ******* hilarious that people of your "caliber" still think that "zerging games" gets you high rated. Zerging affects the MMR ranks far LESS than the TBC system, and if you had a brain instead of a fish mouth, you'd have realized that.
Next I guess you're going to complain that teams can get rank 1 with a less than 90% win ratio. You're a ******* joke.
I love how you mention Hunters "globaling" someone in S5, when in fact I was never hit by a Hunter for more than 3k in one hit back in that season (barring execute). You know what DID hit me for more than 3k and was completely ignored in this "blog?" DEATH KNIGHTS. Lol 6k Icy Touch spam more, PLEASE.
Oh wait, I forgot they fixed that, now you spam 8-9k Frost Strikes. Big change there.
facebiter Aug 10, 2009 at 9:36 pm
+0 votes
what the **** rofl. notice how my comment is 2nd, i didn't even read the blog and i said interesting... But you called me out on it, i havnt played since TBC(I quit to play more balanced games because wotlk was going in the wrong direction)
Mav1234 Aug 12, 2009 at 1:54 am
+1 votes
if you're going to ***** about DKs, at least get the numbers right. I don't think there is a single DK capable of 9k frost strikes on players anymore. =P
proclass Aug 12, 2009 at 6:00 pm
+1 votes
I wasn't talking about 3.2, I was talking about 3.1. The blog was about what has been overpowered in the past, not stuff that remained after 3.2.
Nice try though.
Nice try though.
Mav1234 Aug 12, 2009 at 7:12 pm
+1 votes
Blog was about stuff in the past, yup, and your post mentioned a DK nerf, then went on to say "now blah blah," when by your own admission, that damage does not exist now. So yeah, your post said "now" even if you meant "Even though this has already been nerfed..." btw, he has *****ed about Frost DKs for quite a while, so yeah.
proclass Aug 12, 2009 at 7:14 pm
+1 votes
The DK nerf I was talking about were the 3.1 nerfs that destroyed Serennia's precious shadowfrost spec.
After those nerfs everybody either went full Unholy (new Scourge Strike) or spammed 7-9k Frost Strikes until 3.2.
After those nerfs everybody either went full Unholy (new Scourge Strike) or spammed 7-9k Frost Strikes until 3.2.
Swedookie Aug 10, 2009 at 1:40 pm
-2 votes
Zigrig, is that some sk players name you've copied or? I'm not getting the joke(s) you've made.
Ohflip Aug 10, 2009 at 3:39 pm
+3 votes
(Vance still wearing SK avatar when he hasnt been in SK for a while)
falckjazz alt Aug 10, 2009 at 3:34 pm
+7 votes
kkk i will be there, looking forward to seeing vance in person
DDDDDDDDD
hope this avatar helps
hope this avatar helps
El Conando Aug 10, 2009 at 7:13 pm
+4 votes
upvoted even tho you recently let slip that you did not grow up in konoha.
Deathnade Aug 10, 2009 at 9:20 am
+1 votes
''FoKing rogues'' as good as it is, i do not like playing FoK.
Bettyblade Aug 10, 2009 at 9:27 am
+1 votes
for once I actually agree with every single thing in the s7 improvement, now that innervate is changed they need to fix all the other bull****.
Pretty much agree with all of it, holy crap serennia is making sense!
Pretty much agree with all of it, holy crap serennia is making sense!
BEASTWOOD Aug 10, 2009 at 9:33 am
+1 votes
Destro damage is getting so ******* old. Prot paladin healing is ridiculously stupid too and has no place being viable in arena but that's mainly 2v2 which is dead.
auren Aug 10, 2009 at 3:44 pm
+1 votes
Ret/war/druid of last patch if played very defensively with spell reflects and pally dispels can generally beat us running destro/mage/shaman; albeit 2350s =|= 2700s, but eventually shaman mana will run out against a cleave like that.
Yiska Aug 10, 2009 at 3:47 pm
+0 votes
Really the only thing that you should regulary lose to is Feral rogue priest.
tautology Aug 10, 2009 at 8:54 pm
+1 votes
2850 wizard cleave here, we get countered by resto druid + ret cleaves (can't kill anything even on swaps) , double dispel cleaves (pretty self-explanatory, no fs/immo/fear) and rmp/rls/ (too much control with a rogue) as well as wld.
edit: Yiska you're wrong, that team is free points unless they get really lucky rng and gib lock in a chain of crits.
edit: Yiska you're wrong, that team is free points unless they get really lucky rng and gib lock in a chain of crits.



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