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by Ming, Level 68
Last updated at March 5, 2008, 12:53 am
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The training camp started out with me and Qazdia-senpai trying to gear up our characters but as anyone who attempted it would know, with hundreds of players trying to buy items at same time, it was a process that took many hours. During this entire time like Inactive-chan's mother who would kindly prepare gourmet food for her children, Serennia was helping us picking up gems and enchants even after he already decked out his own druid. Like a spoiled child I got frustrated with the lag and went to a one-hour dinner break, and when I came back there she was, still mashing right clicks on the vendors and the cow traded me a full bag of gems and enchants! Serennia is without a doubt the best possible arena captain you can have as long as you don't lose games. He really takes care of you with meticulous attention to details.
And if you lose, expect to get the same treatment. Serennia can heal the entire team, CCs their warrior all game, DPS when needed, AND still remembers exactly how many stacks of wound poison I had on when I popped cloak of shadows. And I thought my mother was a control freak before I went Itachi mode. Most rogues fight with an aura of ninja spirit. Yet playing with Qazdia-senpai I can't sense any fighting spirit at all. The guy is so mellow that I thought I was listening to Kabuto talking to Orochimaru when he responded to Serennia's post-game questionnaires.
Ever since the TBC PTR dueling video I have been playing hardcore rushdown style. My CD usage has always been very aggressive and I haven't touched a non-prep arena spec since mid-season 2 when I switched to AR/prep weeks before 2.3 went live. Playing a human rogue I also tend to use cloak of shadows to block things like psychic scream and of course vanish on all sort of incoming spells. With the shadowstep spec every 30 seconds you get an opportunity to anticipate the opponent's next move and immune it. And that is when I am at my best, driving to the basket and applying maximum pressure. When I joined the team and saw the seal fate AR spec Serennia asked me to play it felt like going from 5th Avenue Manhattan to Inactive-chan's hometown. I am sure I will do well with warglaives and T6 trinket but he said "you are not there to do damage" to one of the definitive rushdown rogues in the game. The alternative he gave me was even worse (0/27/34, ouch, I will take SF AR instead thank you very much) and he insisted that improved gouge, blade twisting and mace stuns are all needed for peeling. I argued that none of these are on-demand peeling options but since we are playing Serennia basketball I had no problem accepting the blue collar defender role that he gave me so off we went.
Contrary to my initial impression that a team with two rogues should be playing Phoenix Suns run-and-gun, Serennia's offense revolves half-court isolation plays. I am usually on someone with as little mobility as my spec (warlock, priest) and Qazdia-senpai will be the more mobile targets (druid, mage). And that opens up Serennia to play his CC game and even DPS away depend on the match-up. On RMP the combat rogue is on their rogue, the shadowstep rogue on their mage and it felt extremely strong, to the point I almost felt RMP can't really do anything against this strategy since it frees up the druid to do whatever he pleases and a 34/0/27 druid can do a LOT if left open. Serennia said they haven't lost to a RMP in a month and I am not surprised. On warrior/druid/lock or warrior/druid/priest, extremely nasty match-ups for RMP, again I am on the lock or priest, while shadowstep rogue will be on the druid. While the shadowstep rogue can not drop a restoration druid all by himself, he is just there to harass, take away the druid's CCs, and even force the druid to spend valuable GCDs on himself while the combat rogue and druid play rogue/druid with a very favorable mismatch. Against warrior/shaman/paladin, again each rogue will be on one healer, while the druid cyclones the warrior and assist DPS as well. Finally, just like how Pandemic and Mob beat Hamchook, rogue/rogue/druid is one of the best counters to hunter/lock teams in 3v3. 34/0/27 doesn't have the burst healing but it is the only true hybrid spec that can heal and DPS at same time.
Of course, every comp has counters and I really don't believe rogue/rogue/druid can beat warrior/retribution paladin/druid (and if Serennia decides to give up his druid someday I expect that to be his double melee comp). I really don't know what exactly we can do against that comp. Serennia called "both rogues on druid" which left me scratching my head. The team we played against was not even close to the level of Mounsif/Nick but with blessing of protection giving their druid a free reset, there is no way we can drop their druid faster than they can drop ours, especially considering our druid is 34/0/27. Even if Serennia gets away I can be killed in a single HOJ + avenging wrath once my trinket is down. I still don't see why we don't split up on retribution paladin and
druid just like the way we play against any warrior/DPS/healer teams.
Cyclone the warrior and assist DPS on paladin seems much better than
putting both rogues on their druid who is going to get BOPed.
Nition's warrior/rogue/druid also took advantage of my spec. If I stay too close to Serennia I get sapped. If I am far behind he eats an enormous amount of damage before I can open on the rogue and from there Serennia travel forms to get away, the rogue shadowsteps right after him and I am left piercing howled / hamstrung by the warrior. Nition soloed Serennia for a kill on top of the bridge when I got caught below the bridge by the warrior and couldn't get up there to assist. It is like Karl Malone trying to guard Tony Parker at the 3-point line. Serennia's plan is to have our shadowstep rogue on their druid, me on their rogue and he gets to CC the warrior. The truth is their warrior on me can shut me down a lot better than I can shut down a shadowstep rogue. Their shadowstep rogue can also apply so much more pressure on a 34/0/27 druid than our shadowstep rogue can do on a full resto. It felt like a clear mismatch to me.
Last but not least, we fought Venruki's warrior/mage/druid. Venruki was the best mage I dueled in 2.3. Unlike the rogue/mage/druid team where I can sit on the rogue, I can't win the 1v1 match-up against the warrior so all game long I am trying to walk toward their mage or druid while being snared/rooted/stunned 90% of the times. If I pop my cloak to break a root out of frustration they just switch to me and it is very ugly. Against targets that must sit there and eat full AR + CB with EA, SND and BF up, my spec is sensational. Against druid/mage I feel useless. In theory, I can just keep walking toward their druid in slow motion while their warrior gets CCed and eventually we run their druid out of mana healing the mage. In reality, once a shadowstep rogue is out of CDs, he really can't put any pressure on the mage with abolish poison at all. That is when the sheeps begin and Venruki plays his match-up against a shadowstep rogue better than anyone I have ever seen. We don't have any burst whatsoever while a well-timed mace stun followed by a couple of mage instants can drop me during a single cyclone on our druid.
To be honest, I just have so little options at my disposal. My damage is garbage outside of one AR+CB, I don't have any real advantage toe-to-toeing shadowstep rogues outside of my +20% healing from quick recovery. I feel so incredibly fragile with this spec and every game against another rogue (almost always shadowstep) I have to either stay far behind my teammates to avoid a sap or try to run in and get an opener right away (and get opened on and lose 50% of my health right off the bat). As much as mace stuns and blade twisting help slowing down a rogue, they are not on-demand options when your druid is about to take 4000+ damage. Most of the games I am trying to peel a shadowstep rogue with half of his cooldowns and if I get CCed at all by his teammate, he is gone. Heck when I played shadowstep myself, if some combat rogue is trying to guard me, I just shiv or gouge him and shadowstep to my target, there is no way he can keep up. I strongly feel SF/AR works better against teams you would beat anyway, and shadowstep helps a lot more against tougher match-ups. Prep in the hands of a great player yields great results. You are playing with Karl Malone and you shouldn't use him like Greg Ostertag.
Once everyone get their teams up and running on PTR, this will be one crazy server. Because the ratings mean nothing, no one will queue dodge and the level of competition will be unheard of. BG9 is not the only BG in the world and just because you beat X comp in BG9 at Y rating doesn't mean you can beat the same comp from another BG. We all remember the long debates Kintt and Inactive had with me about 2345/2346 vs Euro rogue comp and how "it just doesn't work in BG9". Oops I have a feeling we will see a rogue vs rogue 5v5 finals in BG9 just like we did in Cyclone months ago. This PTR tournament will improve the level of play in 3v3 for sure and I encourage everyone to get on and play. As painful as the character creation process can be, it is very much worth the effort.
P.S. According to Blizzard, S3 still has a lot of life left, but epic gems for as little as 15 badges? Today was a good day for PVPers indeed. I also believe S4 weapons will be the same DPS as Sunwell's final boss drops. Still, outside of premade tournaments, people who PVP and PVE at same time will still have an advantage over pure PVPers. I absolutely love my character on tournament server, with a delicious mix of PVP and PVE gear, he has as much offensive stats in S2/T5/blue gems as my full S3 / BT gemmed character on live, while giving up just 80 resilience.

154 comments
briyan Mar 5, 2008 at 12:55 am
+6 votes
Welcome to the dark side!
Serennia will surely unleash your blackest chakras.
Serennia will surely unleash your blackest chakras.
ronmexicoz Mar 5, 2008 at 8:41 am
+7 votes
As far as I can tell with spec decisions and other idiocy they managed to make it so that the comp actually IS hard. A difficult feat but I guess rogue hero ming was equal to the task.
Ekss Mar 5, 2008 at 9:24 am
+1 votes
Its very hard because rogues are not overpowered and they can not completely lock down almost any class in the game.
Ekss Mar 5, 2008 at 11:04 am
+7 votes
"Seal Fate/AR isn't able to lock down targets nearly as well. Good luck controlling a mage or druid without Prep."
That's why they have a shadowstep rogue for the classes that can actually get away, you BLITHERING idiot.
That's why they have a shadowstep rogue for the classes that can actually get away, you BLITHERING idiot.
Ekss Mar 5, 2008 at 1:20 pm
+1 votes
GOOD ARGUMENT BROSEF.
ROGUES HAVE SHADOWSTEP BUT NOT ALL DO SO THE ONES THAT DONT ARENT OVERPOWERED OK?
As Ming once said, a class is only as good as it's strongest spec. Go learn to play and maybe you'll agree with most top rogues that your class is overpowered.
ROGUES HAVE SHADOWSTEP BUT NOT ALL DO SO THE ONES THAT DONT ARENT OVERPOWERED OK?
As Ming once said, a class is only as good as it's strongest spec. Go learn to play and maybe you'll agree with most top rogues that your class is overpowered.
Malcolm Mar 5, 2008 at 2:52 pm
-1 votes
"As Ming once said, a class is only as good as it's strongest spec. Go
learn to play and maybe you'll agree with most top rogues that your
class is overpowered."
So you check Ming's blog multiple times a day, constantly ridicule him, yet quote him when trying to make a point. Also, please link me to a source where a top rogue claims rogues are overpowered.
And if ShS is the undeniably the class's strongest spec, why aren't they both specced ShS? Oh, perhaps because it's a utility spec and not the end-all-be-all of rogues like Arms is with warriors.
But you wouldn't know anything about that, because you're terrible.
learn to play and maybe you'll agree with most top rogues that your
class is overpowered."
So you check Ming's blog multiple times a day, constantly ridicule him, yet quote him when trying to make a point. Also, please link me to a source where a top rogue claims rogues are overpowered.
And if ShS is the undeniably the class's strongest spec, why aren't they both specced ShS? Oh, perhaps because it's a utility spec and not the end-all-be-all of rogues like Arms is with warriors.
But you wouldn't know anything about that, because you're terrible.
evilT Mar 5, 2008 at 3:05 pm
+2 votes
I find it funnny. You think rogues are op.ok, take cheat death away give us deadly throw spam back and ar prep back.Rogues sucked s1 and s2 in all brackers except 3s.blizz buffed us so we can compete and now warlocks are starting to suck and you qq like a 2 yr old that cant play.
Ekss Mar 5, 2008 at 3:13 pm
+1 votes
1) I check Ming's blog when I have spare time at work, and yes, he does occasionally say something I agree with. I don't really ridicule him, instead I aim for the hordes of terrible rogues (like you) that check his blog daily.
2) I don't really know why they're both not specced ShS, I don't think Ming knows either based on his blog. One possible reason is because they already have one very mobile rogue to lock down the tougher classes and they want some extra dps at the cost of mobility on the other, knowing that he'll be sticking on vulnerable targets. There's lots of reasons people pick inferior overall specs that excel in a specific niche.
Pro tip: I don't play a warlock and I don't think warlocks suck at all.
Edit: Out of curiosity, what's your 3v3 rating?
2) I don't really know why they're both not specced ShS, I don't think Ming knows either based on his blog. One possible reason is because they already have one very mobile rogue to lock down the tougher classes and they want some extra dps at the cost of mobility on the other, knowing that he'll be sticking on vulnerable targets. There's lots of reasons people pick inferior overall specs that excel in a specific niche.
Pro tip: I don't play a warlock and I don't think warlocks suck at all.
Edit: Out of curiosity, what's your 3v3 rating?
Malcolm Mar 5, 2008 at 3:32 pm
-2 votes
"Pro tip: I don't play a warlock and I don't think warlocks suck at all."
Funny, you commented yesterday that you did. When unable to rebutt...lie?
Funny, you commented yesterday that you did. When unable to rebutt...lie?
Ekss Mar 5, 2008 at 3:37 pm
+3 votes
It's called sarcasm. Next you're gonna tell me my ratings are all in the 1700s too? 
Malcolm Mar 5, 2008 at 3:57 pm
+0 votes
If they're not then your level of ignorance has no excuse. Not sure which is worse, to be honest. People who know what they're doing typically don't whine as much as you.
But, hey, here's to being a trailblazer. Cheers.
But, hey, here's to being a trailblazer. Cheers.
Nonno Mar 5, 2008 at 9:36 pm
+1 votes
Malcolm stop speaking honestly, if any one is clueless here it's you.
evilT Mar 5, 2008 at 4:07 pm
-1 votes
Sarcasm is for cocky lil homos, that like to hide behind there computer screen. In real life you would hide and wouldnt say a god damn thing.
Ekss Mar 5, 2008 at 4:10 pm
-1 votes
IRL I'm a sexy beast.
And no, I probably wouldn't fight you over a video game irl either if that's what you're expecting, lol. I do love seeing you get raged by someone that says a class is too strong in a video game though.
Katashu
And no, I probably wouldn't fight you over a video game irl either if that's what you're expecting, lol. I do love seeing you get raged by someone that says a class is too strong in a video game though.
evilT Mar 5, 2008 at 5:17 pm
-2 votes
yea,you prroved me right.YOu wouldnt say anything about anyone irl your prolly some fat ass shemale.just keep eating you're dingddongs and hide behind your cpu.
Ekss Mar 6, 2008 at 9:32 am
+1 votes
Go look at wsvg toronto pics and you'll see what I look like if you're curious. Lets see if you'll post a pic so we can compare. 
The Real Terry White Mar 5, 2008 at 4:41 pm
+3 votes
In real life I would release my dark chakra all over your ******* face.
evilT Mar 5, 2008 at 4:02 pm
+0 votes
ekss is all over theplace. he is a hater.
Pro tip I dont play a rogue and there not op
Pro tip I dont play a rogue and there not op
Kcolraw Mar 5, 2008 at 1:34 am
+5 votes
nice ninja edit you ******
you tried to make a funny about clashing egos
you tried to make a funny about clashing egos
Synthaze Mar 5, 2008 at 4:16 pm
-1 votes
First of all i was not trying to make a funny. It's just that usually when people refer to someone else as acting like their mother they do it in a condescending way. Implying that they are whiny, naggy and or *****y.
secondly, stop voting down my posts plz. All it does is intrigue people and make them click the show comment button.
secondly, stop voting down my posts plz. All it does is intrigue people and make them click the show comment button.
XI-boi Mar 5, 2008 at 1:10 am
+2 votes
Serennia aka "Mom"
. Oh and Itachi mode? Did you kill your family Ming?
evilT Mar 5, 2008 at 3:08 pm
+3 votes
Are you a idiot? when are you gonna understand this is his writting style.QQ more. Cause you jelous of ming.next time you read one of his article understand you're a idiot for reading it.
Sheepwithme Mar 5, 2008 at 1:18 am
+7 votes
lol...you're no karl malone...maybe a fat, post-aids magic johnson
sargsui Mar 5, 2008 at 8:28 am
+8 votes
Anyone else find it amusing that a guy called "Magic Johnson" could distribute AIDS?
No?
Too soon?
No?
Too soon?
Serennia Mar 5, 2008 at 1:18 am
+6 votes
I had a lot of new things I fixed after the lag was gone and able to access the vendors later that night that would've made all of the games much easier the next night but Qaz wasn't around. We'll play around with it on Thursday
Ming has to get used to using cooldowns different, big time. The playstyle is completely different from RMP in terms of cooldown usage and it really shows with his playing so far. But I'm confident it'll be where we want it soon.
Ming has to get used to using cooldowns different, big time. The playstyle is completely different from RMP in terms of cooldown usage and it really shows with his playing so far. But I'm confident it'll be where we want it soon.
Sheepwithme Mar 5, 2008 at 1:20 am
+2 votes
aka he's bad and uses cooldowns whenever they're up without regard to situations
Ming Mar 5, 2008 at 1:20 am
+2 votes
I don't need mace stuns and blade twisting to peel when I can actually catch up to them not to mention open on them instantly when they open on you. Shadowstep is the best rogue spec by far for outlasting teams.
Serennia Mar 5, 2008 at 1:38 am
+5 votes
He's not bad, just not used to playing a defensive playstyle against certain comps. Sometimes you just need to be a complete *** and peel the entire game with full duration gouges, cheap shots, kidneys, etc and not actually try to kill them. His CoS timing is also really important, as it can give the other team a window to kill him without cheat death if they can nail the right CC's.
ellod Mar 5, 2008 at 1:54 am
+0 votes
why 30/31 rather than 20/41? in all of my experience playing various specs, deep combat is one of the absolute best at shutting down players with an almost guaranteed kidney shot and the most sustained damage of any. the tradeoff is qr (and a fairly bad 5 combo points put into seal fate), and i'm having a hard time figuring out how it's worth it
Misto Mar 5, 2008 at 9:26 am
+2 votes
Probably because 15% footspeed and 20% more healing are more useful for the stun/peel type of gameplay than having more damage. Throw in more combo point gen for potential burst and it's an idea...I still wouldn't play it that way though.
I would run something like this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ebRi00bZGcVbbVt0bMRL
As you're gaining energy the seal fate combo points won't be such a big issue, stun and fear resist is amazing (that HoJ that would've killed you resisted eh) and you still bag quick recovery. Cold blood is next to useless on a five point eviscerate if you're playing a more outlasting game; 900 extra damage isn't going to be worth it in the end, but dropping another combat potency for it could be ok too I guess...
I would run something like this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ebRi00bZGcVbbVt0bMRL
As you're gaining energy the seal fate combo points won't be such a big issue, stun and fear resist is amazing (that HoJ that would've killed you resisted eh) and you still bag quick recovery. Cold blood is next to useless on a five point eviscerate if you're playing a more outlasting game; 900 extra damage isn't going to be worth it in the end, but dropping another combat potency for it could be ok too I guess...
Vicente Mar 5, 2008 at 2:41 am
+0 votes
Why no mutilate for your double rogue team? I'd think combat mutilate would be > your AR/Combat spec any day of the week.
Kcolraw Mar 5, 2008 at 1:38 am
+1 votes
uh you know you're on the same team and um
probably can use ingame/aim/msn/vent/WHATEVER to talk about your strategies and what not
what's the point discussing on gameriot as if this is the only way you have to communicate, you two aren't that desperate for attention/xp are you
is it just me or does ming writing a blog on serennia and then ming + serennia discussing about their strategies ON GAMERIOT LOOK REALLY REALLY DUMB
probably can use ingame/aim/msn/vent/WHATEVER to talk about your strategies and what not
what's the point discussing on gameriot as if this is the only way you have to communicate, you two aren't that desperate for attention/xp are you
is it just me or does ming writing a blog on serennia and then ming + serennia discussing about their strategies ON GAMERIOT LOOK REALLY REALLY DUMB
FHazael Mar 5, 2008 at 9:41 am
+11 votes
Lets be serious, Avatar wouldn't have asked Ming if he didn't want daily blog posts about him to increase his e-fame, this is what he wanted so why would he talk about it with some other method when talking about it here brings him even more attention?
Avatar constantly **** talked Ming and Ming constantly **** talked Avatar for ages because Ming would make fun of how stupid he was to get more hits on his blog knowing Avatar would respond raging. Now that he asked him to play he knew he would get more of the same attention which he so desires but this time it would be in a positive light, at least until things go to **** and Avatar goes insane as per usual.
Avatar constantly **** talked Ming and Ming constantly **** talked Avatar for ages because Ming would make fun of how stupid he was to get more hits on his blog knowing Avatar would respond raging. Now that he asked him to play he knew he would get more of the same attention which he so desires but this time it would be in a positive light, at least until things go to **** and Avatar goes insane as per usual.
SPSTM2 Mar 7, 2008 at 8:03 am
+1 votes
While I wanna bash and joke around at how Ming can only play 1 play style of 1 class after playing it since release, I kinda know he's at least not handicapped in the head enough to learn something. Plus he basically said he's the *****, so anyone who's gonna go down on his knees has to get something out of it right? Like Avatar's dark chakra on his face.
Oh crap, my bad.
Oh crap, my bad.
Gifv Mar 7, 2008 at 3:07 pm
+1 votes
what are you trying to get from that spec serrenia? since for pure dmg when sitting on a target you would go combat right? and for survivability, shadowstep?
im gonna try your setup just cause its sounds a lot of fun, so ide apriciate if you could motivate me into speccing like that :P
im gonna try your setup just cause its sounds a lot of fun, so ide apriciate if you could motivate me into speccing like that :P



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