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by Jasi, Level 63
Last updated at February 6, 2008, 2:30 am
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If you haven't noticed the recent trend around here lately, there's been relentless amounts of drama, **** talking, and anything and everything to do with Europe vs. USA in terms of 5v5 talent. Thanks to CLC, most of the fued was put to rest when they finally produced some much awaited footaged of some high-end 5v5 play. And even though it spawned its own seperate strings of drama, who could possibly complain about seeing more of what has been desired for months?
Now, it just so happens that I was sent a link to even more footage of some CLC play (well...sortof). Kollektiv released a new video with footage of a chunk of games of his team (Ohnoes, Kollektiv, Csik, Dymeira, Kasj, armory link here) against a half CLC team (the point selling team with Crysalid, Inactive, Krslol, Lickerz and Erellnoh(shoutout)). Now, don't forget this was a point selling team from CLC, not their standard lineup, and it's blatently clear that these games are hardly representative of their normal strength.
This movie points out a couple of important things that I feel haven't been portrayed as well in other footage. As with all of Kollektiv's movies, the quality is top notch, the music is comprised of typical PVP tracks, the viewability is great, and the UI is clean and simple. What this movie really brings to the table is a clear view into how ridiculously overpowered Shaman damage can be when combined with PI and a Warrior. Now before I continue, you can find the video here: Recalcitrant VS. CLC sell
Recalcitrant runs the season 2 standard 2345, and obviously can play it quite efficiently, as they've managed to break 2200 with the countless number of 2346 teams and incredibly anti-mage hunter/lock combos. Having played with a Mage for the majority of season 3, I can't tell you how ridiculously stupid it is how much they can get not only torn apart, but made almost completely useless whenever they are exposed to Hunters. Add a Warrior into the equation, as well as spammable tongues,and well..yeah. Regardless, I have to give them some credit for managing to be that successful with it.
The first couple of matches show a pretty neutral style on behalf of Kollektiv. A lot of good purging, well timed rank 1 ES's, and damage when necessary. However, there's an obvious playstyle difference between both teams, and while I think the video isn't exactly the best to use in terms of a deciding factor into which is better, there are a couple of important points. Kollektiv often prefers to back up heal, spamming non-stop, as opposed to relentless offensive pressure like Lickerz does from what can be seen in the video. I can understand possibly doing it sometimes, but there are a couple of points in the movie where it seemed like the extra heals weren't necessary, and more offensive pressure could have accomplished the same thing, if not more.
Later in the movie he switches to a much more aggressive style of play, and I think it works more efficiently for them as a team. In the end, he has a good sense of when to purge, great timing with his ES's, as well as keeping up with his totems.
The fights basically come down to who's mage dies first, or random swaps to inactive followed by ridiculous damage. While Ohnoes seems to be the last man standing in terms of mages, there are a couple questionable moves made by Erellnoh, such as completely outranging Crys and Krslol in the first clip (you can see Crsyalid having to stop casting twice to get within range to heal) followed by Losing them down the stairs into the starting room, and generally playing way too much out in the open (which you can especially see in the second to last clip when he does two giant, wide laps around the tomb). So because of this, it's again, hard to say which stlye of Shaman play is the most efficient based on this movie.
In the second clip, which I think is one of the most important clips of the movie, you can see one of the finest examples of how outrageous PI and Shaman are when combined. Shortly after the fight starts, Kollektiv receives a well timed PI, and unloads seven thousand damage into Inactive instantly. I have no idea how, but he managed to stay alive. If there had been even 1-2k damage from another source, it would have been entirely impossible for him to survive, regardless of his playing ability. Balanced, right?
A lot of people feel that PI lust and shaman are counterable, but here we have one of the best Priest/Shaman duo currently playing, who are both quite efficient at removing lust and PI on Shaman(which can be seen in the clips) yet because of the nature of PI, it is completely unstoppable sometimes unless you tunnel vision the shaman non-stop If you still think the combination is balanced after watching this, I don't know what to tell you.
Now, before you jump in and say, "DONT KILL SHAMAN IN THE ONLY BRACKET THEY'RE GOOD IN", understand that I think it almost entirely comes down to an issue with PI, not Shaman. I've discussed solutions to the issue in articles from more than a month ago, and as it stands now, the issue still exists. You may also say that it's somewhat of a biased perspective considering the damage was on a Warrior in zerker stance (Note :NO DEATHWISH), but even considering that, there's no arguing for it being this powerful.
Another issue that can be seen in this video, which I'm sure anyone who plays with a mage is aware of, is the easability in killing Water Elementals, which really destroys mage efficiency.
In the third clip, once again we can see how awesome RNG is when Inactive get's swapped to after his team uses PS, get's imp. Hamstrung and blown to hell.
The movie was great, as can always be expected from Kollektiv, and it makes me look forward to and hope that there will be footage from the upcoming 5v5 tournament that is as well produced as this.

2345 mirrors are a lot more fun than 2346 mirrors
also, pi is dumb and should not let me instantly dump like 10k damage into someone
ok bye
I haven't played on a 2/3 5v5 since season 1. I'd like to see you come out of a break like that and replace CLC's warlock for a night!
By the way we won more than we lost against them.
Pretty sure I'm going to fraps next time we play, but I don't want to do it like Kollektiv's video. It's easy to make it look like you dominate a team when you pick the clips, so I want to do something like...
Frapsing until there's 5 decent games, win or lose, and put the vent recordings of us with it.
but yeah, it is way easier to stop a mages damage than a shamans - even if mages had 100% push back resist.
There was way too much pressure on Errelnoh (and lack of experience) to have him play as well as Ohnoes who has tons of more experience as 2345. - Just thought I'd back Errelnoh up :p
2.3 did nothing to hunters ? You shame your name. How can you be so high rated and do a so retarded comment ?
Ask any caster class what they think about hunters now.
In Inactive's vid when he gets gibbed, the shaman pops bloodlust 10 seconds earlier, which is already a big sign that they are about to focus someone hard. Glorin then pops trinket, gets PI and bloodfury, all right in front of Inactive... Obviously Inactive is an amazing warrior but when u let a shaman combine all those cooldown's and freecast on you in complete los you are going to die 9/10 times...
You don't let a priest chain burns into your paladin and you expect your paladin not to be in los to eat those burns, just like if the shaman targets you and spell alert pops up "Glorbin gains power infusion" you D and break los.
@bad euro scrub above me, when a priest tunnel visions burns you have to attack him in order to prevent the burns and the reason he can do this is the PVE Paladin, so the casters are able to free cast. Grats dude, you really are retarded nzgs and have no grasp over anything arena-wise.
Since you are 16 or whatever you probably don't know what "ad hominem" means, but that's ok you can look it up (LOL SEE WHAT I DID THERE?).
"Wait did you just attack him for making attacks then make a personal attack on him? Classy."
He openly attacks me, and he's euro trash that can do nothing but theorycraft and doesn't even know anything about the basics of WoW.
and what mod is that when he clicks on someone shows all that info
like you said without burst why take a shaman(is there any 2on2/3on3 team where the shaman isnt a 1 shot fire and forget bl burst bot)?
i would happily trade my burst for something more "skillfull".
The funny thing is even when you play the burst game in 2on2 ( sham/frost mage or sham /bm hunter). In all vids the shaman still have to use rocket boots and invul belt.
being that burst oriented. the whole lust pi mechanics are just
stupid imo, needs a complete rework.
Like put dragons breath attached to a scorch or something with some cooldown, that'd be fun and interesting since shamans are built around a 5 second interrupt anyway
ok so my idea sucks bite me
the alternative:
SHAMAN FLAME WREATH
Honestly it wouldn't be too hard to fix shamans. Remove elemental fury (along with a change to PI) and you've pretty much fixed them and put a cool down on water shield. I do think removing elemental fury is an easy fix that would probably be too devastating (just like some people say remove arena water so mages can be viable), just make the burst more preventable with good play and not based off of RNG.
The problems that root from lust are priest based regardless of what team a priest plays on and that is that mana burn needs a short cool down.
COME UP WITH A BETTER IDEA PLS INACTIVE, LIKE SEARING PAINBREATH
Just like the simplest way of fixing mages would be to remove arena water.
Neither of them are good solutions at all.
and when i mentioned a fire spell with an effect, i meant for it to be the 41 point talent so people give up NS for it
just to clarify
remove EM.
give us sth else, no 2345 skill.
"I said that'd be the most simplest way of fixing shaman burst by nerfing elemental fury, then I said but that can't/won't happen because of several reasons nerd -_-
Just like the simplest way of fixing mages would be to remove arena water.
Neither of them are good solutions at all."


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