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by Ming, Level 68
Last updated at February 20, 2009, 1:00 am
As predicted before the 3.0.9 patch was released, the beloved rogue class hit rock bottom on the prestigious SK-100 world rankings, tied with priest at 3%.  For the first time since the start of S5, a class is threatening paladins for the #1 throne, as with the rise of restoration shamans (who moved ahead of DKs for third place), hunters are now at 22% class presentation, only 2% behind paladins.

Paladin: 24%
Hunter: 22%
Shaman: 15%
Deathknight: 13%
Druid: 6%
Mage: 6%
Warlock: 4%
Warrior: 4%
Priest: 3%
Rogue: 3% (no rogue on top 50)

Why The Combined Rating Is THE Best Indicator Of Class Strength

Having analyzed and blogged arena ladders since day one, the combined SK-100 is without a doubt the best benchmark of overall class strength at the highest playing level.  Why?  Because it is THE hardest ladder to climb, hence the hardest ladder to dilute.  The SK-100 is immune to class population effects, when you are talking about 100 elite players out of 11 million, it doesn't matter if there are twice as many players of class A vs class B (see Death Knights vs Shamans), if class B gets stronger, it can and will move ahead of class A on SK-100.

More importantly, many classes/specs can find their niche in a specific comp in a specific bracket, especially when played by creative and talented players (such as Brutal Gladiator Reckful, the shadow dance hero who still inspires confidence in me).  But when you are talking about raw class muscles, you must talk about all three brackets.  To hit SK-100 at all you are going to be top five in at least two of three brackets in a BG, and top 20 in the final bracket.  And once you are talking about the more prestigious spots, like top 20 of SK-100, you have to be top three in all three brackets.  What does it mean?  It means you have to be that much more well rounded compared to players who focus in just one bracket to get their weekly arena points.  And your understanding of your own class and the meta game is simply at a higher level as a result.

And whether you like it or not, there are only two ways to earn a sponsorship.  1) Do exceptionally well on the tournament realm 2) Climb to the very top of SK-100.  Chances are, having both is an even bigger asset.  In 2008, how many teams had players who reached highest standings on SK-100 in their careers?  Almost every team!  Serennia-sama, Azael, Hafu, Glickz, Venruki, Sodah, Cherez, Hamchook . . . the list goes on and on.  It is THE gold standard.  It is the equivalent of a Harvard MBA for WOW players who are looking for sponsorships.  Can you get a team without it?  Yes, but your chance is just that much better if you hit it.  Look at Nick/Hamchook & Co of 2009, and SK giving Serennia-sama a second chance after they used the term "ex-SK player" on him just a few months ago before he hit top of the ladder again.

We can see exactly what happened to teams that at one point did compete on SK-100 and stopped, such as Inactive-chan's CAPSLOCKCREW and of course, Pandemic.  There is no substitute for hundreds of not thousands of games together to build chemistry, and 2v2/5v5 helps the 3v3 game tremendously as they allow you to be that much more versatile with your character.

And Unfortunately, Rogue Is The Least Versatile Class At The Moment

10 second duration on wound/cripple poison, while not anywhere near as devastating as the mutilate nerfs, is just another nail in the coffin.  Our healing debuff / snare was already a joke given how easy it is to snare/CC a rogue and dispel his poisons, this just makes it even easier to get kited.  It is like a straw on a camel that already got stabbed and bleeding to death, but still a straw on the wrong camel nonetheless.

Hunter nerfs are inevitable.  The best way for me to describe them, is a frost mage's control, burst, survivability and escape tools, except his damage is all instant and he has the lasting power / mana drain of a warlock and the best mortal strike debuff in the game.  But even if you hit them with the nerf bat, rogues still don't bring anything unique to the table.  Mobility?  Non-existent after first 30 seconds.  Survivability?  Worse than any other class right now.  Burst damage?  Every melee class is capable of equal or better bursts of evis->mutilate->mutilate->CB evis, and they don't have to save 130 energy and 5 combo points.

Stunlock!  That must be it!  Unfortunately that is gone too.  Every class has at least one stun damage/duration reduction talent and paladin hand of freedom is too big of a counter to our definitive special.  Kidney shot was THE best stun in the game, the one ability that defined our class.  Now it is worse than druid maim . . . so easy to remove, shares DR with all other stuns.

The Shiv Experiment

I got so desperate I bought Avool's Sword of Jin and Librarian Papercutter to try Realz's shiv spec again.  Shiv has been getting a lot of publicity at Elitist Jerks forums, as Shiv with instant poison was proven to outdamage fully talented sinister strikes.  Yes 3/3 vile poison was proven to be more effective than 3/5 relentless strikes on PVE meters!  Instant poison gets 10% bonus from attack power and because it is not reduced by armor (while sinister strike gets roughly 1/14, or 7% from attack power, on top of armor reduction), it simply scales much better than sinister strikes, making 18/51/2 superior to 15/51/5 by a good margin.

I went with 33/4/34 and it is a stronger build than standard mutilate against plate armor.  I did significant more damage to paladins, and we stole a game against Brewkz/Tugget.  Cheat death + quick recovery + 700 plus resilience + battlemaster gave me enough survivability against most classes.  Shiv with instant poison and slice and dice did amazing sustained damage against heavy armor, especially combined with fully talented rupture bleed. 

The weakness is of course, you lack the equivalent of a full energy burst combo.  Mutilate rogues actually countered me very hard because while I can shiv them right through evasion and win the damage meter overall, I never had the burst to finish them off.  While all they have to do is put up expose armor and full energy mutilate mutilate eviscerate and I am done. 

Also, classes with spell resistance made my life extremely difficult.  You can never kill a felhunter with the shiv spec, or arcane mage, or warlock himself (although you can't really do it with mutilate either, instant fear(s) / demonic portal that breaks all snare, just too much survivability when backed by paladins).

I will admit I do not have the optimal gear to play shiv spec yet.  That will require Hailstorm in OH and Webbed Death in MH, and full attack power gems.  However, unless you fight nothing but plates, the increase in nature damage (and the vulnerability to spell resistance) can not make up for the lack of burst damage.  Especially consider double wound mutilate with fast weapons already give you a ton of nature damage and it can bleed every bit as good as shiv spec can.

I am also very concerned about Blizzard nerfing shiv for PVE reasons.  They already removed the glyph of shiv (-5 energy) and made combat potency only applicable to white damages, they made it clear they do not consider shiv a main attack and probably will take additional steps to address shiv's advantage over sinister strike in PVE. 

Fine, but I really believe they should take a look at hemo as well.  Do they consider hemo a main attack?  Because as a debuffer it is woefully inadequate.  Either increase the debuff significantly, reduce the energy cost / actual hemo damage, or buff the attack itself.  Rogue's glory days of classic and TBC were all built around hemo specs.  To fix subtlety, they really need to look at hemo first.
     
184 comments
Rhave
Rhave Feb 20, 2009 at 3:10 am
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+3 votes
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Rogues need some kind of help. It is getting little bit out of control on how horrible their survivability is.
king_lennox
king_lennox Feb 20, 2009 at 3:47 am
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+16 votes
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BlaQsheeP
BlaQsheeP Feb 20, 2009 at 3:55 am
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+3 votes
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king_lennox said
resilience will fix it.
Feels like getting brainwashed hearing that sentence over and over again, just a couple of more times and i will be convinced that resillience will be fixing my moms broken marriage.
Cad
Cad Feb 20, 2009 at 4:17 am unhide comment
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-11 votes
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BABAJANG
BABAJANG Feb 20, 2009 at 8:19 am
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lol, yea they said that "wait to see how resilence plays out" few days later. Ambush no longer use Lethality. What happend to wait and see.
IAREBABOON
IAREBABOON Feb 20, 2009 at 4:06 am unhide comment
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-11 votes
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DeadLy
DeadLy Feb 20, 2009 at 4:07 am
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-3 votes
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you come here for quality blogs?

I only come here for the sake of it, and to laugh at funny blogs made by them (not in an insulting way)
dcs
dcs Feb 20, 2009 at 4:10 am
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+4 votes
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i miss ming e-drama. its was 99% made up but still entertaining.

ming we want to know who hafu is scrawging behind glicks back.
eoreol
eoreol Feb 20, 2009 at 4:37 am
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+1 votes
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Zing
Zing Feb 20, 2009 at 4:14 am
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I guess I'd say I told you so If I cared. Paladins didn't get nerfed once(well divine plea but that did nothing as far as I'm concerned) and they've dropped 10% since their peak.

GG Hunter's aren't imbalanced at all. Greg is the greatest dev ever. Everyone be sure to congratulate him on destroying PvP.

ps: if anyone played/enjoyed Ultima online you should check out Darkfall. There's no chance of it killing wow but it's a completely PvP-centric game aimed purely at the hardcore PvP'ers. It just came up for pre-order today.
Cad
Cad Feb 20, 2009 at 4:15 am
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+5 votes
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Seriously i don't know what the phuoc are these so called 'Blizzard developers' smoking but it's BAD ****.

Nerf rogues, priests, warlocks more, buff hunters, blood dks and holy paladins so we can all reroll and play 3 class mirror matches. Well done Blizzard, well done. For the first time in 4 years as a rogue player i finally feel like the doctor is telling me "your child was born with downs, bad luck".
intrepidos
intrepidos Feb 20, 2009 at 4:31 am
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+2 votes
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StoneDrunk
StoneDrunk Feb 20, 2009 at 4:34 am
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Is ming counting the 51 point warlock talent as a stun reducing effect?

Also, most good players wouldn't be calling for a nerf to rogues if their main spec wasn't so ******* scrub friendly.

-Deadly Jew needs to be taken out.
-Wound needs to stack again.
-Dispel resistance should be put back on, but moderately so, it shouldn't too easy or hard.
-Poison Application rates need to be lowered again.
-Rogues need to get nerfed against clothies, buffed slightly against plate. Plate should still counter rogues, but not at the retarded level they do now.

The only reason wound needs to stack again is because instant 50% wound is half the reason rogue/mage can kill people in a CS/KS imp Counterspell chain.

Oh, and take death knights out of the game.
Moogz
Moogz Feb 20, 2009 at 8:23 am
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+5 votes
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StoneDrunk said
Is ming counting the 51 point warlock talent as a stun reducing effect?

Also, most good players wouldn't be calling for a nerf to rogues if their main spec wasn't so ******* scrub friendly.

-Deadly Jew needs to be taken out.
-Wound needs to stack again.
-Dispel resistance should be put back on, but moderately so, it shouldn't too easy or hard.
-Poison Application rates need to be lowered again.
-Rogues need to get nerfed against clothies, buffed slightly against plate. Plate should still counter rogues, but not at the retarded level they do now.

The only reason wound needs to stack again is because instant 50% wound is half the reason rogue/mage can kill people in a CS/KS imp Counterspell chain.

Oh, and take death knights out of the game.
Dispel resistance needs to be removed completly, and selectively so on certain abilities.

I play a mage and its dumb as **** if i IB and get MD'd instantly but it doesnt break cus i rng'd out. Same with paladin bubbles. But blizzard wont cus for some reason then in their minds they'd have to treat ALL self buffs the same? odd.

I saw someone suggest ages ago that buffs/debuffs be assigned a "dispel value" say 100, and dispel resist talents add to that. With dispels being potent enough to remove 100 value spells in one shot but the talent buffed ones would take 2 for example..at 150 value. There'd be no RNG and it offers you a little protection on your buffs.

Great idea whoever it was.
Inactive
Inactive Feb 20, 2009 at 4:49 am
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+7 votes
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See what happens on TR, that's the only real gauge.
Deltons
Deltons Feb 20, 2009 at 5:17 am
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+2 votes
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^ this. I was waiting for someone to say it.
Inactive
Inactive Feb 20, 2009 at 9:49 pm
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I'm wondering where the thug life came from.
Publicity Stunt
Publicity Stunt Feb 20, 2009 at 11:11 am
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Inactive said
See what happens on TR, that's the only real gauge.
AIN'T GOT NO NERD SPONSER
Cad
Cad Feb 20, 2009 at 5:21 am
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Sometimes i wish November the 13th never happened.
Hushpuppy
Hushpuppy Feb 20, 2009 at 2:37 pm
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I wished this everyday after the first day of S5 started.
resilve
resilve Feb 20, 2009 at 5:57 am
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So typically Ming really, I completely agree rogues are not great, but one week he s saying that 3v3 is the true test of the class balance and then the next he sees a list where rogues are low and then claims that is the benchmark.

Rogues ae FINE, as in not OP and not weak, in 2v2 and 3v3 according to your sainly SK listings, we all know you only claim things to be worse than they are simply because you know that developers are reading.

If you point out bugs and OP aspects of the rogue play they will be drawn to the attention of the people with the power to fix them, if you cry and cry about how weak the class is it is bound to be read by them amirite?
Cad
Cad Feb 20, 2009 at 6:04 am
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resilve said
So typically Ming really, I completely agree rogues are not great, but one week he s saying that 3v3 is the true test of the class balance and then the next he sees a list where rogues are low and then claims that is the benchmark.

Rogues ae FINE, as in not OP and not weak, in 2v2 and 3v3 according to your sainly SK listings, we all know you only claim things to be worse than they are simply because you know that developers are reading.

If you point out bugs and OP aspects of the rogue play they will be drawn to the attention of the people with the power to fix them, if you cry and cry about how weak the class is it is bound to be read by them amirite?
Put improved sprint snare removal into core skill to improve our mobility. Change vanish to something that won't break on abilities cast on u 5 seconds before (I don't know why i am even posting this since they constantly fail on that, perhaps too low budget!)

Seriously rogues wouldn't be that bad if the other classes - hunters, dks, hybrids (feral, ret) wouldn't be doing the same amounts of damage that rogues do + bringing absurd amounts of utility as well.
Qils
Qils Feb 21, 2009 at 7:03 am
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Not tryin to **** on ur comment or anything, but, some of those classes push far more dmg than a rogue does.  This is coming from a priest point of view, 20kHP 900 resil.  A DK with dancing rune weapon up, obliterate critting me for 7k.  A fury war intercepting me, and doing a 4k heroic strike, 5k bloodthrist, 6k WW.  A feral druid shredding me for 6k, then fero bite for 9k.  I dunno, it's just pretty insane.
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