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by Jasi, Level 63
Last updated at March 14, 2008, 7:05 am
If it wasn't already obvious enough that Blizzard stopped caring about Rated WSG/BG's and pretty much any other much needed pvp improvement to this game, Drysc dropped the F-Bomb with this wonderful quote,


"...The issue is the amount of time it takes to create a battleground, and balancing that work time with other areas of the game. Battlegrounds are very labor intensive, Warsong Gulch which is probably the smallest of the battleground maps still has some terrain issues here and there. Playtesting, balancing, making edits, all require a very large amount of resources to ensure a successful battleground..."


Note: Full quote can be read at mmo-champion.com


He continues on about how much of Blizzards "resources" battlegrounds generally take, and how other areas of the game take up a much more substantial chunk of their time and effort. This basically caused every reader to assume that PVP is generally not even half of the priority of that of PVE(although he doesn't say that directly, the fact that they're ever approaching a pathetic average of 1 new BG per year tends to speak for itself) He also says that most of the team is completely focused on WoTLK now, pretty much making 2.4 the last major patch before WoTLK will be released.

I can understand at this point as to why creating another completely new BG designed with a competitive backbone in mind would be difficult and time consuming, but the promise for competitive guild vs. guild and rated WSG/BG was made at Blizzcon, before TBC was even released. The platform is there, the rating system is there, and you wouldn't even have to start from scratch to bring WSG to a competitive level. Now that the TTR is around as well, sponsors won't have to worry about transporting their teams anywhere. It's disappointing to see that Blizzard has followed a trend of having damage scale too quickly, balance get further and further away from what almost every hardcore PVP'er wishes for, and then erases the board for a clean start with a new expansion. With that being said, this is my third article in my series of rated WSG suggestions/content, and I've compiled every suggestion/idea that I felt was good and put them into a list for what I feel would be a pretty good start as to what would be necessary to bring WSG up to level 70 speed. A lot of these suggestions will address potential issues that have been brought up previously.


Rated WSG Suggestions:


Rating System
Option is to either leave it the same as the arena rating system or develop another, possibly based on win/loss ratio's alone.

Issue of GY Camping
Res timer increased from 30 to 60 seconds, or debuff for standing idle around GY area for too long (such as 1% stats reduced every 10 seconds.) A possible hard time limit on overall length of a match could be a good idea as well, or a time limit on how long a character could hold a flag. If both teams are in a stalemate, it might not necessarily be a bad idea to have both flags reset after a certain period of time. This would essentially add another variable for strategies and speed up a lot of games.

Also a lot of comments were left suggesting the GY's be moved closer to the center of the map so that it wouldn't be as close to spawn points/flag rooms. I'm not sure how I feel about this change but it was widely suggested so I figured I'd put it down.

Another idea is to allow flag caps even if you don't currently have your own teams flag safely stored at the base. You'd have to increase the number of caps required to win, but it could add a new speed factor to the game.

Consumables
A new issue, yet also an old issue, would be the use of consumables beyond faps. It was generally an accepted rules among "top" teams at 60 that using certain pots (absorb) and flasks wasn't allowed, so something similar would probably have to be enforced. Pot vendors at starting room/areas. There needs to be careful discrimination on new level 70 consumable type items or they could be gamebreaking.

Flag drop debuff
Recently added debuff upon dropping flag needs to be removed. Flag handling was almost an art form before, using Iceblock, Vanish, etc to throw your opponents off Guard

Resilience
The unknown in terms of how much resilience could effect matches. WSG designed around multiple respawns and death where as resilience/arena is based off of keeping you alive for one death as long as possible.
 
WSG Gear
New WSG only sets with bonuses that improve class efficiency in the WSG environment would always be a good idea in the eyes of Blizzard. You could add in a new token system that rewards tokens based entirely off only ladder based WSG, or even bring back old reputation rewards and offer new ones.

PVE Gear
Most people would like to see a complete removal of PVE gear in all things PVP regardless of it being preform competitive WSG or Arena. I personally think that the imbalance will only get worse as damage scales higher. However, full testing will need to be done, as PVE gear might become necessary to kill 494 resilience targets backed by multiple healers.

Maps
MOAR!~!

That covers most of the potential problems brought up in comments before, as well as some good suggestions in terms of fixes/additions to the level 70 version of WSG. If you have others feel free to comment and I will add them. Have a good weekend.

     
190 comments
shindofivezorz
shindofivezorz Mar 14, 2008 at 7:07 am
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+4 votes
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broslol
broslol Mar 14, 2008 at 8:17 am
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brawl is ***** **** compared to melee bro
Eriaa
Eriaa Mar 14, 2008 at 10:11 am
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its still better than WoW tho
Ekss
Ekss Mar 14, 2008 at 10:53 am unhide comment
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-9 votes
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Accents595
Accents595 Mar 14, 2008 at 11:17 am
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+4 votes
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Ekss
Ekss Mar 14, 2008 at 11:36 am unhide comment
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-9 votes
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Godsmak
Godsmak Mar 14, 2008 at 11:29 am
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true. I voted you up BTW cuz I own these gameriot ball-lickers.
Gumbot
Gumbot Mar 14, 2008 at 1:57 pm
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Melee is better than brawl, but brawl> wow. However Wows kind of bad... so no r eal accomplishment, in fact i'd say tetris is more competitive than wow, also its more fun.
Vtar
Vtar Mar 14, 2008 at 5:00 pm
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sargsui
sargsui Mar 14, 2008 at 4:31 pm
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Also, I had a bowl of cereal this morning that was better than your comment.
Murlu
Murlu Mar 14, 2008 at 5:01 pm
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Regardless of melee being better than brawl, brawl is a breath of fresh air to me.  Mostly cause druids killed WoW PvP.

Who knows though, maybe there will be a huge player divide between melee and brawl like there still is between cs 1.6 and source.

Source is trash.
Gumbot
Gumbot Mar 16, 2008 at 2:54 am
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Melee is better everyone agrees on this -.- although i dont play CS so i dont know how much of a 1.6 vs source debate there is, i don t think the comparison is valid, people are just playing brawl becauseits new and has online play, if Melee was new/online and brawl was old and had no online, people would be playing melee... the fact people are playing brawl right now has nothing to do with the merits of its game
Vadren
Vadren Mar 16, 2008 at 2:31 pm
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I've never been into competitive smash, but when melee first came out most people seemed to think the N64 version was better... until they got used to melee. It's possible for the same to happen with brawl.
Gumbot
Gumbot Mar 16, 2008 at 4:48 pm
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ill concede that that is a possibility however, i believe that possibility to be very unlikely
Bill_T
Bill_T Mar 17, 2008 at 12:29 pm
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I don't get this talk of hardcore PvPers awaiting a new BG... Being a real PvPer that concept is completely ridiculous to me.

Since TBC PvP has gone down hill. Arenas increased the necessity to participate in instanced PvP. Flying mounts, coupled w/ arenas, successfully put the nail in the coffin for people who enjoy World PvP.

WoW never had great PvP, and it never will. I have been playing MMORPGs for about 8 years as a PvPer/Griefer. Started w/ UO, went to Shadowbane (Best PvP System IMO), messed around in L2 and DAoC. I really only went to WoW because of it's popularity and RL relationships. Participated in Beta, and decided to stick to Shadowbane. Only went to WoW when RL friends went.

Instanced PvP is not PvP. WoW's current PvP is nothing more than CS or SBBB. At least games like Brawl have a higher skill cap and a more active E-Sport scene.
Drexciya
Drexciya Mar 14, 2008 at 7:11 am
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How about time based games as opposed to cap-limit based games? Ie. you can cap even if your team's flag is being carried and the team with the highest amount of caps after say 20 mins win.

You could also make it a twist, let's say caps give 100 points and kills give 1 point - then the team with most points wins.
Exitec
Exitec Mar 14, 2008 at 8:18 am
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Drexciya
Drexciya Mar 14, 2008 at 8:22 am
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TehJerk
TehJerk Mar 14, 2008 at 11:29 am
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thats actually the best feature of AV, and the only one that really works well.  AV is crap otherwise, worse than the AV before the last patch that made everyone guard and take towers.  the best thing they did to AV was put that time limit in it based on resources, even if 3/4's of the players are such honor whoores they'd rather lose in a fast game than win by resources ;p

a time limit is the most straight forward solution to WSG dragging out.  But it only should be the last resort way to win, cap'ing and gib'ing the enemy flag carrier should be the focal point of the BG
Zathras
Zathras Mar 14, 2008 at 7:16 am
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Rather than assuming blizzard is giving priority to PvE over PvP from that statement, I'd say that they are simply not willing to dedicate any significant resources to things that are already ingame. New content has priority for blizzard because new content sells. WSG has been in the game for nearly two years now, so why focus on something that works 'good enough' (in their view) when you can make more content  (wotlk) and sell it to people?

As long as that subscriber count keeps rising they'll not bother to spend more money, because obviously the current formula is working.
Nobbeh
Nobbeh Mar 14, 2008 at 12:17 pm
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+2 votes
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as someone once told me good enough is not good enough.
sargsui
sargsui Mar 14, 2008 at 4:34 pm
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Then I wish they'd stop worrying about making money and try to make something good.
What's up with everyone dropping out of their mother's crotch and then snoring their way to the grave?
Trupster
Trupster Mar 15, 2008 at 12:07 am
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Because thats how society has evolved my friend. Sad but true.
Vhairi
Vhairi Mar 14, 2008 at 7:20 am
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I seriously cannot believe that a new BG map is even remotely close to the resources required for a new instance.  As such, if they can introduce new PvE content at a such a huge rate (> 7:1 PvE:PvP?) then it speaks volumes.

Give us CTF (WSG), Onslaught (AB) etc. and just have some diff textures/terrains.  Variety is what is seriously lacking in PvP.

3 Arena Maps.  4 BG Maps vs how many dungeons?  And each dungeon has items, NPCs, Class balancing for raid bosses etc etc.
Then we have high rated players who would love to buy gems from arena points (or even lower rated players with older gear).  Why not add in new PvP gems etc. through APs? 

Hell, remove rating reqs on gear and make different Tiers different colours.   So at 1800+ you can LOOK different without eliminating content (not all of us can get 1850+ for various reasons and seeing points vanish is soul destroying).

I don't think PvP balance is low pri but pvp content definitely is and that is what is seriously lacking now. :(
Ravel
Ravel Mar 14, 2008 at 7:21 am
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It's one of Blizzards major problems you're discussing here. Because they are so eager to release high quality products, they sometimes take a lot of time. Too much time. Remember the patch, where rogue poisions couldn't be dispelled, no matter how often you tried? Took Blizzard more than a month to fix it. In three years they have released a total of three battlegrounds. To fix a certain imbaness in game (druids for example), it takes them several months and when the patch finaly goes live, another imbaness is detect shortly after, which takes another several months to fix.
While we certainly complain on a very high standard, there is room to improve for Blizzard nevertheless. Fixes and changes have to happen faster and new content shouldn't take so long to be developed. I mean, come on. 1 year per (****ty) battleground? What is this?
XI-boi
XI-boi Mar 14, 2008 at 7:21 am
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this is stupid. we deserve a quality background, many players are paying just for the pvp.
drole
drole Mar 14, 2008 at 7:56 am
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+1 votes
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gimme a new car rather than recoloring my current. WotLK > rated wsg
Ttn Alakir
Ttn Alakir Mar 14, 2008 at 7:59 am
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How was creating the dozens of pve instances any less labor intensive than making a couple of minor terrain adjustments to wsg? do elaborate drysc
Aenea
Aenea Mar 14, 2008 at 8:02 am
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Would love to see a rated BG, but I guess it's for a core of pvp'ers only cause casuals probably can't care less as long as they get their honor to buy their epics.
Gershon
Gershon Mar 14, 2008 at 8:08 am
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+1 votes
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Kind of off topic but what's up with Project Shadow, Jasi?
Jasi
Jasi Mar 14, 2008 at 6:55 pm
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It's pretty likely to fail, but I'm finishing up getting full s3 shadow first.
Gershon
Gershon Mar 15, 2008 at 4:57 pm
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Have any idea what comps you are planning to run?
Rogue/Sp Obvi, and something with a druid for 3s?
 
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